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Emergency brake not working

Started by BlackCads, September 07, 2018, 04:55:56 PM

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BlackCads

I discovered today that the emergency brake on my 1965 Sedan de Ville is not working. Pressing the pedal to the floor won’t stop the car if it’s in gear and won’t hold the car when used as a parking brake on a hill.
Two years ago I replaced the cables from the yoke back to the rear drums, installed new wheel cylinders, shoes and springs. The vacuum release function is working properly. I did install disc brakes on the front of the car last month but did not do anything to the rear brakes.
I brought the car to my mechanics and they tightened up the cables, inspected and adjusted the drums, shoes, and wheel cylinders, none if which seemed to work. My mechanics suggested that the brake shoes sold nowadays are not sufficient for the emergency / parking brake function, due to the banning of asbestos.
Long story short, I would appreciate any and all comments and suggestions on how to possibly resolve this problem.
Thank you.

Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373

The parking brake will hold my 70 and 55. Sounds like you need another mechanic.
Jeff
Jeff Rosansky
CLC #28373
1970 Coupe DeVille (Big Red)
1955 Series 62 (Baby Blue)
Dad's new 1979 Coupe DeVille

Scot Minesinger

Agree with Jeff.  However, I have the same problem.  My brakes seem in nice repair but the E brake will slow down the car, but will not hold it in idle.  Not sure why this is, but have not dealt with it just yet, as it is low priority.
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

savemy67

Hello BlackCads,

A few things come to mind.

I respectfully disagree with your mechanic about the lack of asbestos being responsible for failing e-brakes.  The same material is used for disc brake pads, even though discs work differently than drums.  If the shoes were ever contaminated with brake fluid, oil, or grease, this may account for their lack of grip.

Your post mentions the replacement of the cables from the yolk back.  What about the cable from the e-brake pedal to the yolk?  If that has stretched, you may not get enough tension along the full length of the cables to effectively engage the e-brake.

Did your mechanic verify that the rear wheel brake adjusters were installed on the correct sides of the car?  If they were swapped, the shoes will actually be adjusted away from the drums.  You may not notice this under normal braking applications because the majority of the braking force is done by the front discs (which could probably stop the car without any assist from the rear drums).

Proper adjustment of drum brakes is part science, part art.  Unlike disc brakes, which require no adjustment, drum brakes require that most of the components be in good order.  Your post did mention replacement of some components, but I did not see that you replaced the shoes, arced the shoes, and turned the drums.

I would probably first check/adjust the cable from the e-brake pedal to the yolk, then check that the rear adjusters are positioned and operating correctly, then I would replace the shoes and turn the drums.  Good luck.

Respectfully submitted,
Christopher Winter
Christopher Winter
1967 Sedan DeVille hardtop

Julien Abrahams

I agree with the other guys' suggestions of finding another mechanic. Being a mechanic he should know tnat the wheel brake cylinders are not used for the e-brake (which works via a cable and levers directly). The wheel cylinders only work when the normal brake pedal is used.
I would check tne shoes for contamination and check if they are adjusted properly. You could even check if pushing the e-brake has an effect on the shoes by jacking uo the car in the rear (use jack stands!) The take of one of the rear wheels and drum. Have somebody push the e-brake pedal and see if the shoes move. Also check if the shoes are contaminated. Re-attach the drum, and see how far the brake pedal can be pushed before the drums lock up the rear wheel. Check on both sides.
Maybe the brake shoes are just contaminated with oil or brake fluid due to a fsiled wheel cylinder in the past.
Tne e-brake should be able to ho!d the car on hill.I don't think it was designed to lock up the rear wheels when driving (in case of emergency). At least my shop manual and owners manual stat " the parking brake will not lock when the trnsmission selector is in either drive position ir in reverse. In case of brake failure, the car can be stopped by using the parking brake".
1954 Cadillac series 62
1967 Cadillac Sedan De Ville HT
1969 Austin Healey Sprite
1979 Opel Kadett

Cape Cod Fleetwood

#5
Quote from: Julien Abrahams on September 08, 2018, 04:16:09 AM
I don't think it was designed to lock up the rear wheels when driving (in case of emergency). At least my shop manual and owners manual stat " the parking brake will not lock when the trnsmission selector is in either drive position ir in reverse. In case of brake failure, the car can be stopped by using the parking brake".

I'm just the resident air head chick here but...
I'm pretty sure the parking brake is also the emergency brake. True, the parking brake/emergency brake will not lock into position when the car is gear. When you're in PARK and lock the brake, then put the car into gear, the brake pops off. The reason the parking brake/emergency brake cables go solely to the rear wheels IS to provide braking in an emergency. I just had my parking brake/emergency brake cables replaced, they were manufactured by In Line Tube in stainless steel. The cable from the pedal to the yoke was fine, everything aft of the yoke was trash. Once Michael installed the cables and re-adjusted the rear brakes, he was able to hold the car in place by pressing the parking brake/emergency brake with his left foot and applying full power with his right foot with the car in gear. Proving the system is operational for an emergency.

Agree with the consensus, time for a new mechanic.

\m/
Laurie
There are 2 kinds of cars in the world, Cadillac and everything else....

The Present -1970 Fleetwood Brougham

The Past -
1996 Deville Concours
1987 Sedan De Ville "Commonwealth Edition"
1981 Coupe De Ville (8-6-4)
1976 Sedan De Ville
1975 Sedan De Ville

The Daily Driver and work slave -
2008 GMC Acadia SLT *options/all

Cape Cod Fleetwood

Quote from: Scot Minesinger on September 07, 2018, 05:22:47 PM
Agree with Jeff.  However, I have the same problem.  My brakes seem in nice repair but the E brake will slow down the car, but will not hold it in idle.  Not sure why this is, but have not dealt with it just yet, as it is low priority.

Scot, my DEAR friend, and I mean that sincerely, *PLEASE* address the EB issue on your car ASAP. Its the only parachute we have in the event of a total brake failure. You are too valuable to me in general and the forum in particular to be risked. Not to mention how hard it is to find a body shop that will work on sheet metal...  :P

\m/
Laurie
There are 2 kinds of cars in the world, Cadillac and everything else....

The Present -1970 Fleetwood Brougham

The Past -
1996 Deville Concours
1987 Sedan De Ville "Commonwealth Edition"
1981 Coupe De Ville (8-6-4)
1976 Sedan De Ville
1975 Sedan De Ville

The Daily Driver and work slave -
2008 GMC Acadia SLT *options/all

BlackCads

I agree with the need for a second opinion on this. I truly hope the cable from the pedal to the yoke isn't stretched or damaged as that looks like a real pain to replace (assuming I could even find a replacement, as these are no longer made).
While I am confident in the main braking system in the car (brand new booster, front discs) I do think it is important to have an emergency brake.
Thanks to all for your comments.

"Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364

For all the commentary to the contrary, the Parking brake IS SUPPOSED TO HOLD THE CAR IN GEAR AT IDLE.  If it doesn't it is because either the cable adjustment is not correct OR the rear brakes are really out of adjustment or worn.
Greg Surfas
Cadillac Kid-Greg Surfas
Director Modified Chapter CLC
CLC #15364
66 Coupe deVille (now gone to the UK)
72 Eldo Cpe  (now cruising the sands in Quatar)
73 Coupe deVille
75 Coupe deElegance
76 Coupe deVille
79 Coupe de ville with "Paris" (pick up) option and 472 motor
514 inch motor now in '73-

Cape Cod Fleetwood

Quote from: BlackCads on September 08, 2018, 01:19:50 PM
I agree with the need for a second opinion on this. I truly hope the cable from the pedal to the yoke isn't stretched or damaged as that looks like a real pain to replace (assuming I could even find a replacement, as these are no longer made).
While I am confident in the main braking system in the car (brand new booster, front discs) I do think it is important to have an emergency brake.
Thanks to all for your comments.

New cables, custom made in stainless steel, just send them your old one(s). They received my cables at noon, the new custom made cables were at FedEx coming home at 4pm - the same day. And at half the price and twice the quality of the "reproduction" sellers.

https://www.inlinetube.com/

\m/
Laurie
There are 2 kinds of cars in the world, Cadillac and everything else....

The Present -1970 Fleetwood Brougham

The Past -
1996 Deville Concours
1987 Sedan De Ville "Commonwealth Edition"
1981 Coupe De Ville (8-6-4)
1976 Sedan De Ville
1975 Sedan De Ville

The Daily Driver and work slave -
2008 GMC Acadia SLT *options/all