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CDV Ride and Comfort Differences 75-76 vs 77-79

Started by Joe V, September 16, 2018, 10:16:28 AM

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Dan LeBlanc

Now you've got me curious.  If I'm reading between the lines correctly, the way it's worded would lead me to believe that the SDV has less rear legroom than the FWB.  What's different about the FWB that would give it more rear leg room?  Now that I own one, I'd like to know.  Mine is an early production with the foot rests - I can see why they were deleted because they definitely get in the way.
Dan LeBlanc
1977 Lincoln Continental Town Car

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

#21
In essence they're saying the front and rear seat legroom is the same for 1977 DeVille/Brougham models as the (longer wheelbase) 1976 Fleetwood Brougham while it is greater when compared to the standard wheelbase Calais/DeVille models of 1976.

A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

V63

New anti-corrosion inner front fender panels (READ: Plastic).

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

Quote from: V63 on September 17, 2018, 11:25:43 AM
New anti-corrosion inner front fender panels (READ: Plastic).

Yes indeed!

New plastic front wheelhouse (21 pounds lighter)... is specifically mentioned.

The plastic is very thick and strong and I've yet to see one cracked, plus it doesn't rust.

Also there is heavy structural steel bracing under the hood, exclusive to 77-79 DeV/Brg/Limo - not used on any other GM car ever made.
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

V63

#24
Quote from: Dan LeBlanc on September 17, 2018, 11:02:31 AM
Now you've got me curious.  If I'm reading between the lines correctly, the way it's worded would lead me to believe that the SDV has less rear legroom than the FWB.  What's different about the FWB that would give it more rear leg room?  Now that I own one, I'd like to know.  Mine is an early production with the foot rests - I can see why they were deleted because they definitely get in the way.

The size difference between SDV and fleetwood last applicable in 1976.

1977-9 shared the same basic body save for cosmetic differences in pillars.

"Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364

Joe asked a simple question.  "Is there a difference in ride and comfort between a 75/76 CDV and a 77 of the same model.  The simple answer which must be experienced first hand is YES. 
A "tale of the tape" will show that although the passenger compartment is slightly smaller inthe 77 and on cars, the engineers did a fantastic job of making it seem larger by encroaching into areas the earlier cars had as dead space.  Between the engine and the firewall, between the outer and inner door skins, by lowering the floor into the frame area and the ride by virtue of the use of newly developing mathematical computer simulation was improved as well.
I know many of you out there have vested interests in one side or the other, but as mentioned earlier, it would behoove Joe to set up rides in both samples and make up his won mind.
Sure they took 700 pounds out of the cars, but nearly 150 of those pounds came from the engine itself.  They took a "bullet proof" motor and cut every gram of weight out of the block, castings and reciprocating parts they could.  The results are an engine whose longevity has decreased exponentially.
Joe,
Go take a couple of test rides.
Greg Surfas
Cadillac Kid-Greg Surfas
Director Modified Chapter CLC
CLC #15364
66 Coupe deVille (now gone to the UK)
72 Eldo Cpe  (now cruising the sands in Quatar)
73 Coupe deVille
75 Coupe deElegance
76 Coupe deVille
79 Coupe de ville with "Paris" (pick up) option and 472 motor
514 inch motor now in '73-

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

#26
Quote from: "Cadillac Kid"  Greg Surfas 15364 on September 17, 2018, 01:13:21 PM
They took a "bullet proof" motor and cut every gram of weight out of the block, castings and reciprocating parts they could.  The results are an engine whose longevity has decreased exponentially.


Sorry but that is pure nonsense. In fact, a 425 had been listed in the Guinness Book of World records for having the highest documented mileage gasoline engine with no major engine work having being performed. The entry was recorded in 1994 on a 1979 Sedan deVille with 577,000 miles.

I had once been a die-hard 1976 and earlier fan and felt that Cadillac really cut corners (along with all the other downsized GM cars) with the new 1977 models. To be frank, I thought they were a joke - that is until I started owning them and began to fully appreciate the many ways 1977 had been improved - that was when my position reversed.

This is not to say 1976 models are not beautiful cars, which they are - especially the Talisman model which was sadly eliminated. However for the Cadillac owner who wants the the car with the least amount of fuss, the most comfortable, quietest, easiest to drive and maneuver that is one of the easiest to own, operate and service, the Tri7 has 71-76 beat in spades, IMHO.

I say this after years of driving many of each and that is my verdict for whatever it may be worth and the many people who bought them new who kept them for 10 years or more did not do so for no good reason!! Rarely did any new Cadillac buyer of a 71-76 keep their cars anywhere near that long because they didn't last as long!

BTW - There used to be a saying: "If a 1976 Cadillac is only a little rusty, it's still on the assembly line."  ;D 
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

"Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364

#27
Well I’m certainly not going to argue with Uncle Guinness. My information regarding the downsized motor came from Mr Robert Templin who was Chief Engineer C MD when the 425 was being chiseled out of the 472/500 motor.
Greg Surfas
Cadillac Kid-Greg Surfas
Director Modified Chapter CLC
CLC #15364
66 Coupe deVille (now gone to the UK)
72 Eldo Cpe  (now cruising the sands in Quatar)
73 Coupe deVille
75 Coupe deElegance
76 Coupe deVille
79 Coupe de ville with "Paris" (pick up) option and 472 motor
514 inch motor now in '73-

V63

QUOTE:

“ I don't live in a place where you can easily find excellent examples to drive, so all the input is appreciated”

[/quote]

Dan LeBlanc

Eric - you said my favourite T word - Talisman!  Just imagine what a 77 Talisman would look like if they had continued!

As far as the extra bracing in the hood goes, is it just me, or does the leading edge of the hood like to dance a little bit at highway speeds?  Every Tri-7 I've been in, I've noticed this.
Dan LeBlanc
1977 Lincoln Continental Town Car

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

#30
Quote from: Dan LeBlanc on September 17, 2018, 02:39:24 PM
Eric - you said my favourite T word - Talisman!  Just imagine what a 77 Talisman would look like if they had continued!

As far as the extra bracing in the hood goes, is it just me, or does the leading edge of the hood like to dance a little bit at highway speeds?  Every Tri-7 I've been in, I've noticed this.

Never seen that in a Tri7 before Dan.  ???  Perhaps some play developed in the latch or possibly an adjustment of some sort is needed...I'd start by looking at the hood bumpers.

My fantasy 77-79 would have been a Fleetwood Brougham Coupe- or better still a Brougham Coupe d'Elegance, black with red leather and real wood trim please.  ;)
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

Bentley

Hey V63,

Is that the Arizona Biltmore in your photos?
Wes Bentley
CLC # 30183

V63


gkhashem

#33
Quote from: Dan LeBlanc on September 17, 2018, 02:39:24 PM
Eric - you said my favourite T word - Talisman!  Just imagine what a 77 Talisman would look like if they had continued!

As far as the extra bracing in the hood goes, is it just me, or does the leading edge of the hood like to dance a little bit at highway speeds?  Every Tri-7 I've been in, I've noticed this.

Dan if you mean the hood is bouncing or moving in the wind at high speed I have never seen that. I have got my car up to 75-80 MPH and still no movement.

I am with Eric on his suggestion. The latch or hood bumpers might need some adjustment.

My annoying thing on my car which is essentially rattle free is there is some plastic rubbing somewhere behind my glovebox and I have tightened every screw I could find from the dash vent on top near the windshield to underneath the glovebox. Nothing loose. It sounds like something rubbing and making an occasional squeak.
1959 Oldsmobile 98 Holiday Sports Sedan
1960 Cadillac Coupe Deville (CLC Sr #72)
1964 Oldsmobile 98 Town Sedan (OCA 1st)
1970 GMC C1500
1977 Oldsmobile 98 Regency Coupe
1978 Cadillac Coupe Deville (CLC Sr Crown #959)*
1992 Oldsmobile 98 (OCA 1st)
1996 Oldsmobile 98
*CLC Past President's Preservation

Past Cadillacs
1959 Coupe Deville
1966 Coupe Deville (Sr #861)*
1991 Eldorado Biarritz (Sr #838)

"Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364

George
There is less than no clearance between the rear of the engine on the passanger side and the heater box. I would check to see that the heater supply water hose that is located “behind” the right head is no rubbing on the heater box.
Greg Surfas
Cadillac Kid-Greg Surfas
Director Modified Chapter CLC
CLC #15364
66 Coupe deVille (now gone to the UK)
72 Eldo Cpe  (now cruising the sands in Quatar)
73 Coupe deVille
75 Coupe deElegance
76 Coupe deVille
79 Coupe de ville with "Paris" (pick up) option and 472 motor
514 inch motor now in '73-

V63



As far as the extra bracing in the hood goes, is it just me, or does the leading edge of the hood like to dance a little bit at highway speeds?  Every Tri-7 I've been in, I've noticed this.
[/quote]

I noticed The aluminum hood versions would do that, I attributed it to the lighter lifting springs.

"Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364

Part of what they did to minimize NVH (read that rattles and noise) was to "cowl" everything very closely to keep some sort of plastic material between the metal panels.  What this in turn does is to capture "ram" air at highway speeds above the cowl that covers the horns and seals off the radiator. What that in turn does is allows pressure to build up between the cowl and the hood causing pulsations that, as the bumpers wear, allow the hood to visibly vibrate.  New bumpers and semi frequent hood adjustments will minimize this,but it is one of the prices paid during the initial downsizing,
Greg Surfas
Cadillac Kid-Greg Surfas
Director Modified Chapter CLC
CLC #15364
66 Coupe deVille (now gone to the UK)
72 Eldo Cpe  (now cruising the sands in Quatar)
73 Coupe deVille
75 Coupe deElegance
76 Coupe deVille
79 Coupe de ville with "Paris" (pick up) option and 472 motor
514 inch motor now in '73-

Scot Minesinger

77-79 beats the 71-76 Cadillacs in comfort, ride...in spades - no. 

The 75 thru 79 are all nice, and each has an advantage over the other.  Late 1970's is when GM quality dropped off, the paint on a 75 will be better than a 78 for example.  Find a nice 75, 76, 77, 78 or 79 Cadillac, or any 1970 decade Cadillac in good mechanical repair in the cosmetics you like and you should be happy. 
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

Quote from: Scot Minesinger on September 17, 2018, 09:48:56 PM
77-79 beats the 71-76 Cadillacs in comfort, ride...in spades - no. 

The 75 thru 79 are all nice, and each has an advantage over the other.  Late 1970's is when GM quality dropped off, the paint on a 75 will be better than a 78 for example.  Find a nice 75, 76, 77, 78 or 79 Cadillac, or any 1970 decade Cadillac in good mechanical repair in the cosmetics you like and you should be happy.

I also said IMHO.

While 71-76 most certainly has some advantages over the following generation, they are overwhelmed  by those in favor of the latter in the total analysis. That is also my opinion as well.

Now ask me which I think performs better - 59/60 or 61-64.
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

Barry M Wheeler #2189

Eric, let him go buy a '74, 75, or '76 and unless he gets a "slick-top," he'll fight rust from the git-go. I've owned nearly a half dozen '78s and '79s. I've had major mechanical problems with none of them except for replacing an A/C compressor on the current one. The current '79 Fleetwood has competed at Des Moines, Savannah, KC, and a couple of Fall Festivals. So, it's been around. I drove it to Richmond, VA once to see a soccer game my grandson was playing in. You fill it up with gas and go. When we got the first one,  a '79 SDV, Gay was pulling out of the sales lot onto the Parkway. I told her that if she wanted, we'd go to the Olds store and see about a new Cutlass. All she said, after driving the car a hundred feet or so was, "Don't bother. This is my car." (We found out after buying the car that it had been driven to the West Coast and back as a perk for winning a sales contest.) I finally sold it for $700 in 1993 after it had been sitting, unused for some time. I hated to let it go even then. You have a large choice of colors and interiors. Best of all, you know you're driving a Cadillac! (The only thing she doesn't like is having to slam her door to close it as it's still so tight.)
Barry M. Wheeler #2189


1981 Cadillac Seville
1991 Cadillac Seville