1952 Fleetwood For sale - Comments

[BJM]

https://stcloud.craigslist.org/cto/d/for-sale-1952-cadillac/6676090158.html

I finally spoke with the seller today and he is a CLC member from Minnesota. I learned a lot more about this car and before I consider it further, I wanted some forum comments.

It has 108,000 miles. The owner is the 3rd owner. The original owner used it only when visiting a vacation place in Minnesota.  Photos tell quite a bit.  Original paint. original chrome.

Hydraulic windows do not work and need rebuilt.  It needs new exhaust (dual exhaust)

The car runs, drives and stops fine.  Per seller.  The interior seating is obviously not authentic and original but the seller states it looks good and is close to original. 

He sent additional photos and the interior does look nice, but I always thought a 52 Fleetwood might have some leather in the seat tops and thigh area and or a brocade type pattern in the seat.

The seller stated the 2nd owner rebuilt the motor but there is no proof except it does not smoke or leak. Transmission works well as it gets exercised.   I think the $8800 is a bit high but I am a cheapskate.  I have the money to buy it, but am wondering about whether I should wait or not. 

The 108,000 miles kind of worried me. I would not drive it more than 3,000 miles a year.  Engine bay needs major cosmetic restoration in my opinion, which I could chip away at.  No power steering. 

There is a local guy that can restore the windows I am told.  I don't see the car increasing in value.  That's the conundrum - how much do you offer on a car, provided it's a car you like and have made a decision to buy, knowing you will enjoy it in the hobby but it's not appreciating? 

You don't want to overpay but you don't want to under pay or offer too little.

[V63]

The reality is it’s just not an easy sell, and the owner is seasoning to that idea. I think $6,500 would be trying to buy it.

[jdemerson]

Bryan,

     Would your goal be to return it to authentic original condition?

     The interior may be nice, but it isn't very close to original. The Fleetwood did not have leather in 1952.

     The hydraulic rebuild is a major item, but I believe the parts are still available from Hydro-Lectric.  You are fortunate if you have someone near by that can do the job. When replacing the cylinders and hoses, be sure to switch from Brake Fluid to something else -- transmissions fluid or hydraulic fluid. Brake fluid is hygroscopic.(absorbs water) and it destroys paint.

      The exhaust is not a problem. Maybe $600 for the pipes, mufflers, and resonators. Plus labor.

      The fog lights and the panels below the headlights are not authentic, and will not be cheap to replace or to have replated.

      I like the black with white top. If chrome and stainless are free of deflects, that is a huge plus!  Of course a good engine and good transmission are pluses as well.

     If you wind up buying it, send me a PM and I can provide some materials and background.

John Emerson
1952 Cadillac Sedan  6219X

[Mike Josephic CLC #3877]

Looks like an overall decent car.  Interior not
very authentic and deteriorates from the
overall condition.

Just curious -- what did you mean by "restoring
the windows?"

Mike

[James Landi]

Bryan,

Please forgive me if I come off here as patronizing, but in your role as a consistent and expert contributor on this blog, I would speculate that you know a great car at a good price when you see one. At some point in the brotherhood of all things Cadillac= LaSalle, the preservation of these cars, and  this car in particular must be recognized as a worthy enterprise, not only by you going forward into the future, but we all know that previous owners have cared and preserved it. Seems to me that it's a car that would be quite easy to love. go for it!   Happy day,  James

[Joe Vastola]

Having done a complete long hydraulic redo on my 49, I recommend you look very closely at the system when considering purchase price.  It may not be the replacement of only cylinders and hoses.  Over time the hydraulic plumbing can develop rust pin holes or get clogged with hardened brake fluid or rust debris that cannot simply be blown out.  Then the whole car needs to be replumbed and that is significantly more work than replacing cylinders and hoses.  The hydraulic pump may also need rebuild or replacement if it can't make 250psi at the cylinders.  Hard to tell the overall shape of the hydraulic system if it's not pumping.  If no windows are working, it's probably more than the cylinders since they don't all go out at once and one bad cylinder does not stop the others from working unless it's leaking profusely.  All cylinders are available for purchase and hoses are made to order.  All hydraulic plumbing is custom fabricated. 

[Barry M Wheeler #2189]

No.

[Cape Cod Fleetwood]

FWIW, there's a really cool 1937 Caddy Opera Coupe for sale on the NERCLC, 90% done, owner has had it for 19 years.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/nerclc/permalink/10156520350906067/

If you really like the '52, employ the MaraLago Theory, it worked for me when I bought my '87 SDV.
He wants $8800... offer $5800, he'll say no.
Wait a week and offer $4800, he'll say no.
Wait another week and offer $3800... etc
If you're the only one showing interest in the car, you could own it pretty cheap at this point...

"But you offered $5800 last week"... that was last week.

\m/
Laurie

[D.Smith]

https://stcloud.craigslist.org/cto/d/for-sale-1952-cadillac/6676090158.html
 
    I don't see the car increasing in value.  That's the conundrum - how much do you offer on a car, provided it's a car you like and have made a decision to buy, knowing you will enjoy it in the hobby but it's not appreciating? 

 

appreciating?   That is never a factor to me.  Appreciation is more important.

I think the more important factor here is that you are on a mission to buy on a budget and are looking for a deal that doesn't need too much $ to be spent on it.    This isn't that car.   While it is a pretty car and will make a nice driver once sorted out, it still need a ton of $$$ to make it more presentable.  Those black painted front parts that should be chromed were painted for a reason.  They need rechroming or replacing.  As pointed out the hydraulic window system is not cheap to fix.   

[Steve Passmore]

The 37 coupe would make a nice sister car to my 37 convertible.

[jdemerson]

Having completed a complete long hydraulic redo on my 49, I recommend you look very closely at the system when considering purchase price.  It may not be the replacement of only cylinders and hoses.  Over time the hydraulic plumbing can develop rust pin holes or get clogged with hardened brake fluid or rust debris that cannot simply be blown out.  Then the whole car needs to be replumbed and that is significantly more work than replacing cylinders and hoses.  The hydraulic pump may also need rebuild or replacement if it can't make 250psi at the cylinders.  Hard to tell the overall shape of the hydraulic system if it's not pumping.  If no windows are working, it's probably more than the cylinders since they don't all go out at once and one bad cylinder does not stop the others from working unless it's leaking profusely.  All cylinders are available for purchase and hoses are made to order.  All hydraulic plumbing is custom fabricated.

Yes, this is right and is the elephant in the room. As an owner of a '52, I'd love to see you buy it and bring it back to original. I've no way to evaluate the price without knowing in detail about the issues Joe has described. By the way, the power front seat is on the same hydraulic system. The mileage doesn't scare me IF the engine and transmission check out as very solid condition. I neglected to mention the lack of power steering: I've never seen a 1952 Fleetwood 60S that didn't have it. Of course '52 was the first year of that option and there are Series 62 models that didn't have it. 

The value of this car, if well-restored, could be in the $25-$30,000 range. No matter what you pay, it is probably easy to put more than this in the car, especially if you are paying for all the labor. As you know, there's more involved here than 'return on investment'. And that is true whether you initially pay $8800 or $6500. From this distance, it appears someone is going to wind up with a very nice Cadillac!

John Emerson
1952 Cadillac sedan 6219X

[STS05lg]

Laurie, John, Mike, Jim, Joe,  those are all good comments, however you need to realize that Bryan is what teenagers call an "internet troll". Every few months Bryan pulls up a car that is for sale and asks for comments from the forum. He says he is interested in the car and wants the thoughts of people on the forum. Bryan even sometimes call the owner of the car for sale to gain information and posts that on the forum. Occasionally he will come back and say he offered the owner salvage value for the vehicle to get the reaction from the forum. From all Bryan's past posts, it can be reasonably surmised he has no interest in that 1952 Fleetwood at all. He is just looking for responses from the people on the forum. If you don't believe me go back and look Bryan has said he was interested in buying various cars from a 70's Fleetwood to a two seat Allante to a Sedan de Ville to a 50's Fleetwood. As the teenagers say he is just trolling for responses. This is in no way to be considered a put down of Bryan just stating the facts. Best, Lynn

[Dan LeBlanc]

I'll just be sitting quietly over here eating my popcorn while the comments fly.

[STS05lg]

Dan, enjoy the popcorn but just don't spill any in that beautiful interior of your new 77 Fleetwood.     

[Joe Vastola]

Thanks for pointing out Lynn.  I wondered if something was up given the number of previous posts, the number of profile cars listed/owned, the stated basic concerns about motors and mileage, and lacking knowledge of basic model information for a car under consideration for purchase.  But I responded with information I knew to be accurate as my attempt to provide the same value I receive from this forum. 

I will be leary of chiming in for the next request for comments from trolls.  At the very least, future forums searchers will find information that may be useful and offered sincerely.

[BJM]

Bryan,

     Would your goal be to return it to authentic original condition?

     The interior may be nice, but it isn't very close to original. The Fleetwood did not have leather in 1952.

     The hydraulic rebuild is a major item, but I believe the parts are still available from Hydro-Lectric.  You are fortunate if you have someone near by that can do the job. When replacing the cylinders and hoses, be sure to switch from Brake Fluid to something else -- transmissions fluid or hydraulic fluid. Brake fluid is hygroscopic.(absorbs water) and it destroys paint.

      The exhaust is not a problem. Maybe $600 for the pipes, mufflers, and resonators. Plus labor.

      The fog lights and the panels below the headlights are not authentic, and will not be cheap to replace or to have replated.

      I like the black with white top. If chrome and stainless are free of deflects, that is a huge plus!  Of course a good engine and good transmission are pluses as well.

     If you wind up buying it, send me a PM and I can provide some materials and background.

John Emerson
1952 Cadillac Sedan  6219X

John, no - I would not be interested in returning to original. I would just enjoy this car the way it is, over the next 20 years, then sell it when I feel driving it is beyond my skills or interest. 

I would of course, chip away at the deficiencies.  The car could be driven for fun in a season, April to October, then driven to the local guy who rebuilds these hydraulic power windows for as long as he wants it in the winter.  He would use transmission fluid for the rebuild, and I think it would be good for years.

Those ugly black painted turn signal surrounds would be removed in October after a season and sent to a chrome shop.  But, getting the car at a decent price, would allow me to chip away at these issues.  The other side would maybe have me waiting and consider a higher cost, well sorted 50's Fleetwood. 

[BJM]

appreciating?   That is never a factor to me.  Appreciation is more important.

I think the more important factor here is that you are on a mission to buy on a budget and are looking for a deal that doesn't need too much $ to be spent on it.    This isn't that car.   While it is a pretty car and will make a nice driver once sorted out, it still need a ton of $$$ to make it more presentable.  Those black painted front parts that should be chromed were painted for a reason.  They need rechroming or replacing.  As pointed out the hydraulic window system is not cheap to fix.

True Dave, that's why I asked the question.  It's especially tough in a Craigs List environment where the seller puts a sale price of $1 and asks you to make an offer, or the price of $8800 is placed and there is no change down.  The seller is motivated - he says - but how do you make an offer of $5000 without sounding like a low baller?

[Jay Friedman]

My own (humble) opinion is to stay away from Cadillacs of the '40s and '50s with a Hydro-Electric system (power seat, windows, top).  It can turn out to be a money-hole, and don't forget your windows are broken in the down position.  And keep in mind, if the system developed a leak while it still had brake fluid in the hydraulic lines, there could be corrosion inside the doors that may not be apparent.

There are plenty of Cadillacs of that era with crank up windows, which raise and lower very easily BTW, since they are Cadillac crank up windows (obviously not FWs).  For example, 1950-53 Series 62 sedans are almost as elegant looking as a Series 60 FW.  The power seat is of no consequence, since it's most likely you will be the only driver and once the seat is positioned where you like it, it is unlikely it will be moved very often, if at all. 

Keep looking and you will find one within your budget and which needs much less expensive work than this '52 FW or, if you are  lucky, no work at all.

[Barry M Wheeler #2189]

Great answer. I have had to struggle for most of my fifty odd Cadillacs since 1958, so I appreciate what you're dilemma is. When I commented, I had erased at least three, if not four messages. So, before turning the light out, I presented my one word answer, "No." In case you are wavering, I repeat, (and I can't think what movie this quote is from), "Not only "No," but "Hell, no!"
You do a much better job at "finding" stuff than I did, so I keep my CL wanderings down to 1988-1993 and just to places where Southwest flies. (I still have a one way ticket credit from not going to the GN.) There is a 1990 Seville in Indy for under a grand that is on OfferUp that I still have in my tabs that looks promising. (Don't they all?)
So, keep it up, keep looking. They're out there. Remember that winter is coming, and lots of wives get "sick" of old cars then...