79-81 Eldorado FWD Robustness

[Joe V]

Back when I was in college, I flew to NYC to spend the holidays with a nice college girl I met.  Turned out to be a little different trip than what I was thinking when I boarded the plane since I didn't know I was staying with the nice girl and her nice family until I arrived and she and her father picked me up from the airport in his 80-ish Eldorado.

At that time I had no real interest in Cadillac's.  Like many young guys, I thought they were old men cars and I was too cool cruising in my 57 Chevy.  But I remember liking that new dark blue Eldo with blue leather and the memory of that car is still with me 36 years later.  Now that my tastes are refined and I have an affinity for classic Cadillacs, I have always shied away from Eldos because they are FWD.  It's probably good that I did because of the large selection of nice 82 and beyond models and the fact that lacking knowledge could have resulted in an HT4100 dog sitting in the driveway.  But I can't say that my opinion on FWD Cadillacs is based on any real facts.  So as I consider the next collection addition, I'm letting my mind wander back to that dark blue Eldo with blue leather and wondering if a 79-81 should be in the list for consideration. 

So how robust is the FWD platform in those years?  Any serious issues or maintenance requirements that should keep it off the list?

[76eldo]

Joe

I've owned many 80-85 Eldorados. Some of the cars I have owned have needed the axles services only due to the rubber boot tearing or wearing out.  It's not a terribly difficult job to replace with a rebuilt unit which you can get for under $100 a side.

That's only if and when this happens. Other than that I'd say my 80 Eldo runs and drives great.  Never any problems with the drive train on any of the cars I've had except for one 4100 powered 85 convertible I bought. The guy lied to me and said the engine was rebuilt recently.  The car did run great and I drove it home from Rhode Island to the Philly area but two weeks later it started leaking badly from a head gasket.

If you want to discuss either of the convertibles I have, I have a super nice 1980 black convertible and an 81 that needs a little work.  Send me an email and we can talk on the phone. 

Personally I'd recommend sticking with 79-81 if you decide to buy one of these.

[TJ Hopland]

I don't think there is anything on them that is especially problematic or difficult to get these days.  Sure there will be things that need to be replaced but its a 40 year old car so that will be expected.  Same thing with availability it can be a little hit and miss same as about 75% of the other cars out there that are not Mustangs or Camaros.

They don't drive like a typical FWD car.  Not sure why, maybe its turning the engine sideways that makes em fee weird?  CV axles and hub/bearings seem to be available and don't seem to have an unusually short life.

Transmissions for the years you mention were the 325 which is basically the THM200.  No OD or locking converter.  I have read that it got all the improvements of the 200c so it wasn't as bad as the original 200's.  They were not 400's but didn't seem that bad.   I think by that time the 400 wasn't what it used to be either.

79 still had the electro mechanical pneumatic climate control and the analog multiport EFI on the Olds motor.  80 was the digital climate control and the digital throttle body EFI on the 368 cad motor unless you were in CA, you got the 79 Olds EFI motor.  Optional were the diesel and V6.  81 was the 8-6-4 or diesel or V6.   I believe the early digital climate control stuff was one year only and possibly engine specific because it tied into the engine computer for diagnostics so finding replacement parts for that stuff can be more difficult than stuff that was used across all models more years. 

Rear disc and ALC (rear air shocks) were standard.  Rear calipers tend to stick from sitting and not using the parking brake.  Calipers are being reproduced because they are popular for disc swaps on other brands and models.  Rear air shocks do appear to be in production.  You really want the rear to be at the proper height and not bouncing around or you get some odd rear bump steer from the unique geometry of the independent suspension.   

If you are just trying to avoid the 4100 you can look for a 82 with the 4.1 V6.  The V6 came out as an option mid 80.   It was a variant of the Buick 3.8 with a 4bbl.  Back then it wasn't a desired engine but today it could be a good option because its not an early EFI system.   If it was me searching I would also be looking all the way to 85 for a diesel conversion.   It was common and not that difficult so I would not be afraid of one of those unless you were planning on being judged.  It would be a fun show car just to show how common it was for swaps.     

[Barry M Wheeler #2189]

You forgot my car...It's an '81 with the Buick V-6 engine.

[TJ Hopland]

Ya maybe I was not clear, its not just 82 that the 4.1 V6 was an option on the Eldo it became an option mid 80 and ran through 82.  I believe it was an option on the full line except limo/cc.    In that era they were selling in the neighborhood of 250k cars and the V6 and diesels were maybe 1/3 of that at their peak which appeared to be 81.

[Joe V]

How does the V6 perform?

[Barry M Wheeler #2189]

Well, I try not to pull out in front of 18 wheelers too much... Definitely I don't try to "make" a R/R crossing in front of a train. It's maybe like a 4.1 V-8 on steroids. (I've had both.) I goofed up on a near mint 80's era Eldo at an auction that went for under $2,000 that I didn't bid on because I passed by it about ten feet away and all I could see was a 4.1 label on the fender. (They left mine off when they re-painted the car and I hadn't replaced it yet.)

Other than that, it's easy to start, runs well, and basically haven't had any problems with it. Doesn't use oil all that much. I've had two or three trips to Fall Festival with it and that's over a three hundred mile round trip.

[TJ Hopland]

The 4.1v6 vs the 4100v8 just depends on the exact situation.  The 3.8's had a 2bbl the 4.1 had the extra inches plus the Quadrajet so it felt like a completely different engine.  For the era I would say it was in the upper end of the curve for performance just remember this is the era of the what 180? hp Corvette.   

I never had a good running 368 at the same time as 4100 and 4.1 so I can't remember the comparison.  I don't remember being overly impressed with them.  Like most of those old downsized engines I think they suffered from a lot of dead weight and small valves.  I think on paper it rated better but maybe the weight of the cars and the THM400 in most cases just didn't feel that powerful.  The 200/325 family of transmissions had a 2.7ish first gear vs. the 2.5 ish of the 350/400 so that helps a little.       

[Barry M Wheeler #2189]

I wish it had the V-6 like was in the 90's LeSabres I loved to drive as a demo while I was selling cars. We still have loads of them around here that the "old folks" just won't give them up. Now THAT'S "bullet-proof."

[76eldo]

My 80 with the 368 has a much heavier feel and ride than any of my HT4100 cara did.
It's truly the little brother to my 76 Eldo.
Plus they are both black convertibles with black tops and red interiors.

The 80 has a great feel on the road. Like the 76 was shrunk down.

[Scot Minesinger]

As classic cars, you should not have trouble with the 79-81 Eldorado drive trains. 

The 81 has the 4-6-8 feature which can be mitigated easily, plus it is fuel injected over the 1980 carb. 368 engine.  I like the cool feel of the torsion bar suspension.  The trouble with front drive was braking, steering, driving over pot holes in weather while also being the driven wheels is just too much for a front end during hard daily driving.  Most collector car owners drive gently on smooth dry roads and are not in a hurry, so this vintage in good repair with proper maintenance should last a lifetime for a collector.  I remember driving a brand new 1979 Olds Torando with 350 engine back in high school and it was very powerful, the Cadillac should be similar.

[TJ Hopland]

From a sitting in the drivers seat prospective there were a lot of things I found more comfortable about my 80 vs my 73.  My 80 had the pillow back seats which I thought were very comfortable. The 73 isn't unconformable, its just there.  And even though the whole car was smaller they managed the interior space very well, in some aspects I think it had more room than the 73 did.  I remember first sitting in it thinking it was tiny and would be uncomfortable long term but there was space where you needed it. 

The only thing that I didn't like about the handling of the 80 which I think I mentioned already is they get rear bump steer if the rear isn't at the correct height and doesn't have good shocks.   Bump steer is where as the suspension travels the wheels actually steer a bit because of the change in geometry.  I think its designed like that so going around hard corners the wheels actually steer somewhat to increase/maintain traction.  Thats good for corners but kinda freaky when you are going straight and hit a bump.       

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

As classic cars, you should not have trouble with the 79-81 Eldorado drive trains. 

The 81 has the 4-6-8 feature which can be mitigated easily, plus it is fuel injected over the 1980 carb. 368 engine. 

Eldorado/Seville with 6.0 liter was fuel injected (TBI) in 1980. Only the RWD models had the carburetor engine. Incidentally hp was slightly lower for the 6.0 liter FI engine - 140 hp vs 150 hp for the carburetor version.

[gkhashem]

I wish it had the V-6 like was in the 90's LeSabres I loved to drive as a demo while I was selling cars. We still have loads of them around here that the "old folks" just won't give them up. Now THAT'S "bullet-proof."

Barry my 1989 Buick and 1991 Olds have the 3800 V6 Buick, one of the best engines ever sold by GM.

My first new car was a 1987 Buick LeSabre coupe with a T package, black with gray interior I had it 15 years for 107,000 miles sold it to a neighbor and it ran another 10 years for a total of 260,000 miles and it only stopped because it rusted out.

Peppy and great mileage I just got 27 MPG driving to Hershey in my 1989 and that lines up with the mileage I got in my 1987. No problem accelerating either. Cadillac should have used that instead of that crappy 4100. Image all the nice 1982-1985 Cadillacs we would have to buy today.

The only issue is that they need the intake manifold gaskets redone and once you do that with the improved design the car will outlast us all as long as you change the oil.

[bcroe]

I have owned 79 E cars since about 1984, a couple Toros and and
Eldo.  Over 300,000 miles on them, they were and are a driver and
I beat the s..t out of them like my other cars.  I broke about
anything that could break.  I wrote an 18 page history of 3 decades
maintaining them, but won't be able to put much of that here. 

My 79 Toro 350 would do 0-60 in 10 seconds, burning premium.  The
Eldo was slower on regular and a poorer axle ratio.  I think I once
saw a factory 79 Toro with 403, but you can easily make the conversion. 
The 79 EFI is more troublesome than a carb.  Bulletproof engines. 

The TH 325 trans does OK, but with miles they develop a sloppy shift. 
An available mild shift kit fixes that, but the problem may just be a
broken accumulator spring (left side under big round cover) which
was broken on every TH325 I ever took apart. 

Do not be surprised if the final drive breaks some teeth off without
warning, it happened to both my Toros.  I read the factory built some
crystalized gears, was ready with a junk yard spare for the second one. 
I did not wait for the Eldo failure, swapped in a 403/TH425 switch
pitch/78 final drive to eliminate the problem. 

The half shafts seemed to have way more boot failures than the CRV
here.  Failure of the damper on the right side is eliminated on earlier
bigger cars by using a left shaft on both sides.  This doesn't bolt in
for the 79-85 because the inside mounts are different.  So you get a
CLUNK whenever changing from accel to decel.  A little drilling
and tapping on the right drive plate make the swap possible. 

The front disk/rear drum brakes worked fine like my other cars, on
a Toro.  The other 2 with 4 discs caused lots of problems, and I had
to install a rear brake proportioning valve to make them safe to
drive in poor weather. 

The Eldo handling was awful, and had to be upgraded to FE2
suspension plus gas shocks and more to be right. 

Bruce Roe