News:

Due to a technical issue, some recently uploaded pictures have been lost. We are investigating why this happened but the issue has been resolved so that future uploads should be safe.  You can also Modify your post (MORE...) and re-upload the pictures in your post.

Main Menu

1978-79 Cdv - what should I check before buying ?

Started by Huba, November 11, 2018, 02:10:20 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Huba

Hello Everyone,

I am a new member and I hope future (soon to be) owner of my dream Cadillac.

Could you please help me?
I have a chance to buy a Cadillac Coupe Deville 1978-79 with less than 50k miles.
What should I check and where should I look in order to find potential issues ?
Should I be worried for example because center of a steering wheel has slightly different color that the rest of the interior?
I've generally checked that car for rust and it has very little I did not find any "bubbles" but maybe I was looking in wrong spots.
It's been garage kept. I am attaching images.
I have a chance to buy it for 9k $ but I am not sure if this is a good/fair price.

I am sorry for my English but I am not a native speaker.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Regards,

Huba Jan

BJM

We have a knowledgeable forum member who can answer your questions.

$9,000 may be fair or not based on his comments. Records of service over the years are helpful.

gkhashem

$9,000 seems a bit high.

Take a test drive and listen to the engine, see how it drives/shifts and get a feel for it. Look at the age of the tires, bumper fillers, heat/AC, and headliner

It would have to need nothing to even be worth that. Nothing means nothing other than an oil change and coolant change just general maintenance.

If it is in need of nothing offer $6,500 go to $7,000 if really mint (maybe a tad more I would have to see it) and bring some cash. If they still balk leave your phone number and wait for a call in about a month.

Where was the rust???

1959 Oldsmobile 98 Holiday Sports Sedan
1960 Cadillac Coupe Deville (CLC Sr #72)
1964 Oldsmobile 98 Town Sedan (OCA 1st)
1970 GMC C1500
1977 Oldsmobile 98 Regency Coupe
1978 Cadillac Coupe Deville (CLC Sr Crown #959)*
1992 Oldsmobile 98 (OCA 1st)
1996 Oldsmobile 98
*CLC Past President's Preservation

Past Cadillacs
1959 Coupe Deville
1966 Coupe Deville (Sr #861)*
1991 Eldorado Biarritz (Sr #838)

TJ Hopland

Plastics they were using then tended to fade at different rates sometimes without even being exposed to sun so its not uncommon to see different colors in an otherwise good looking interior.   There were also other plastic warping related issues with the horn pads and I believe parts of the horn switch mechanism in that 77-78 design so its possible its been changed.   When they get real cold something expands or contracts and can activate the horn.   I wondered why I saw so many of these cars with non working horns.   After I bought one and fixed the cut wires I found out why.  It was fine all summer but winter woke up in the middle of the night with the horn going.

How is the headliner?   It was very common to have them come loose in that era.  There was a layer of foam between the cloth and cardboard backing.  The foam seems to have around a 20 year lifespan before it turns to dust.

The blower relay (located in the relay block above the fuse panel) had a tendency to overheat.   I think the issues starts with the relay itself getting warm but eventually leads to the terminals in the relay block overheating so its worth a look at that to make sure its not an issue.  If its fine now make sure the relay is in good shape and that the terminals in the block are gripping good and tight.  I suspect the real issue is the relay is undersized.  The fix if its a driver is to replace it with a more modern relay.   The terminals are the standard packard 56's that are easily released from the block if they have not already melted so you can easily pop them out of the block and slide them onto a newer style universal relay without irreversible modification to the car. 

All the cars I have messed with from this era had the plastic nut things the headlight adjusters break so the headlights end up pointing in random directions.   Parts stores don't always have them on hand but they are available from the Help! line.   

These still had the plastic covered timing chain sprockets.  Age hurts them as much, maybe worse than mileage does.   If its been done great.  If not its something to put on the watch list.  You can see it enough to tell if its plastic or steel and an idea of its condition by pulling the distributor.
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

e.kempton

This looks like a nice 1979.  It does have minor problems...such as the headlamp adjusters...this can also be the headlamp housing that just falls apart and the adjusters have no place to go.  They do not make these anymore and a good used one is $200.00.  The door weatherstrip on the drivers door is in poor condition and should be replaced.  I am thinking the radio antenna does not work as it should go down when the car is off.  The two rear bumper fillers are a little off color because of age and could be brittle.  I can't see the one around the rear license plate and gas fill area.  I wonder why the car has 1980-81 hub caps on it and not 1979's?  The price is a little high for any car in the 48 states. If the car is out of country maybe not so bad.  But we do not know where it is for sale.   These are just what I can see from the photos. Other people have made other comments on other things that can go wrong with this era Cadillac.   Good luck.

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

#5
$9,000 is way too much for this one - especially in these colors. Wrong wheel covers too. Discoloration of the horn pad is normal on these. They can usually be cleaned up.

The most common issue on these years are the rear (body color) filler panels, the vast majority of which have been replaced, or won't be long before it's needed if they weren't. Headlight adjusters are commonly available. In 1980 they screwed directly into the header panel but a different system was used in the '70s so this should not be an issue in a 77/78/79.

As far as I'm concerned, Tri7 DeVilles/Broughams were the best overall cars ever produced by Cadillac. They're virtually indestructible, easy & inexpensive to maintain and far more resistant to rust than any prior model year and among the most enjoyable to drive and ride in. 

For point of reference, here's another Coupe deVille currently on eBay with every nearly option box checked and only 27,000 miles that appears to be at least as nice, if not better.

Frankly I'm a little surprised the bidding has gone as high as it has. Not so long ago this car would have struggled to make $6,500 in these colors. Of course, the level of optional equipment makes this one a bit more special.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1978-Cadillac-DeVille-NO-RESERVE-dElegance-One-Owner-Very-Low-Miles/223217790495?hash=item33f8d12e1f:g:YVAAAOSw4c5b32l6:rk:4:pf:1&vxp=mtr&frcectupt=true
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

BJM

Huba:
The experts have spoken.  My perspective is that there are quite a few 77, 78, 79 Coupe deVilles in the current U.S. market place. As a macro statement.  I am a known cheapskate and would not spend $9000 on that particular CdV. 

I am going to say that the decent 77-79 CdV average price is aroung $6000. This should get you a well sorted 45,000 to 80,000 mile car.  The issue is how was it maintained, stored and so on.  Based on that, I would not spend $9000 for this one. 


Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

#7
Next to condition, colors are absolutely critical to the value of these.

I know I would have no problem getting $20K for this one - 2x black + red leather with 18,000 miles. Only took me 25 years to find - you will never find another.

If the car was beige, green, tan, silver, blue, brown, gold or yellow  divide the value by 2.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/1977_Cadillac_Coupe_DeVille_%282%29.jpg[/i
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

Huba

#8
Thank you so much for a prompt reply and for all those advices.
Car is for sale in NJ. Tires are new, current owner put them last year.
It looks like it has issues with those headlights adjusters ( I am attaching front picture), I am wondering if that part may be printed using 3D printer but I would prefer original parts of course.
As it comes for rusting, when I had a chance to look/check this car I only saw light surface rust under the car, I checked bottom rant of the doors and no rust there, overall this car seemed for  me like it is in very good condition. 
I do not know when was the last time when it was run before I went there to check it but it started without a problem. Engine works smoothly but did not have a chance to test drive it.
Interior is in very good condition, headliner is not hanging. It seems like headliner issue is a common issue with most of the classic cars. I agree that sponge/foam gets old and falls apart.
Paint does not look nice (not shiny anymore) on those short parts next to tail light. I've noticed that right away.
I have no idea why it has different wheel cups, if I get it I will change them to proper ones as I would like to make it perfectly original.
As for the price, originally owner wanted 11k for it ;-) but when I met him again (I see him from time to time) and I was able convince my wife (I know that I have to act quickly )  ;-) I proposed that I can give him 9k, but now it seems it is way too high.
If I remember correctly it has either 34k miles or 43k miles.

Thank you very much for all replies and advices.

Regards,

Huba

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

Headlight adjusters commonly available - no 3D printing needed!

Fillers are not shiny because they are beginning to deteriorate. They are made of rubber and this what happens as they age as the oils in rubber begin to ooze out appears as sticky film on the parts. The film can usually be polished off but this is usually only temporary. Replacement kits are available but we'll talk about that another time once you've gotten to the point. Just a fact of life with all Cadillacs of the '70s and '80s with these body color painted parts as a result of the government mandated 5 mph bumper system.

Have you looked at the '78 on eBay posted above?

A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

Huba

Yes I have. Car looks very nice, however there is no picture from under the car.
I would have to add 1k - 1.5k to total cost probably in order to move it here to NJ I guess.
Eric your black Cdv is outstanding !!!


Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

#11
Quote from: Huba on November 11, 2018, 03:57:38 PM
Yes I have. Car looks very nice, however there is no picture from under the car.
I would have to add 1k - 1.5k to total cost probably in order to move it here to NJ I guess.
Eric your black Cdv is outstanding !!!

Underhood photos show extremely minimal rust - this portends well for the undercarriage. I've seen far more rust in the engine compartment than this car yet still have excellent undercarriages. These cars were not known for rusty frames and almost never on the floors. Light surface rust is normal -  there is no such thing as perfection on a 40 year old frame - not even on my '77.

You still have time to contact the seller before the auction ends. Get him to send you some pictures if he can. It isn't going to look new - no such thing exists.  It's d'Elegance with Astroroof and dual six way seats with dual power recliners - extremely rare options.

If I had to buy sight unseen, I would take an chance on this one. There's too much right here for there to be something drastically wrong - IMHO. I'm familiar with what goes on these cars and this one isn't showing it.

**No need to spend $1,500 to get this one back to NJ. I would just drive it home.


A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

gkhashem

#13
The only thing that did in the eBay car was the color.

Also the engine looks crusty. I wonder why so many low mileage cars seem to get that way?

If it was black or red it would have done easily over $10,000 maybe upwards to $12,500.

My estimate of around $6,500 to $7,000 for the car here seems reasonable if the eBay car actually sold for $9,000.

We are looking at about the same color. Not sure about the options on this car but the eBay car appears nicely optioned.
1959 Oldsmobile 98 Holiday Sports Sedan
1960 Cadillac Coupe Deville (CLC Sr #72)
1964 Oldsmobile 98 Town Sedan (OCA 1st)
1970 GMC C1500
1977 Oldsmobile 98 Regency Coupe
1978 Cadillac Coupe Deville (CLC Sr Crown #959)*
1992 Oldsmobile 98 (OCA 1st)
1996 Oldsmobile 98
*CLC Past President's Preservation

Past Cadillacs
1959 Coupe Deville
1966 Coupe Deville (Sr #861)*
1991 Eldorado Biarritz (Sr #838)

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

$10,000 - $12,500 would never touch the car if 2x black + red, 2x white + red, 3x white with white/red interior, red/white top with white/red interior in original #2 condition with 27,000 on the clock.

Have to disagree on the engine being crusty.
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

Joe V

#15
77' 2x White + red with 46K miles for sale on ebay for $9500 with best offer option.  Been for sale for a while and listed a couple times starting at over $12K.  Looks like fillers are already replaced just in need of pinstriping.  Better colors than original post and with leather which was a problem for the $9K car.  Touchable in the $8800-$9000 range I would guess. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1977-Cadillac-DeVille-Red-Leather/163322320403?hash=item2606c4d613:g:4RAAAOSw899bjwFb:rk:24:pf:0&vxp=mtr

gkhashem

#16
I can see some rust. Take a closer look at the front of the valve cover. Not just missing paint maybe more. But I cannot tell for sure.

I would like a better picture since I have seen some crusty examples of these cars. No on can tell from these photos. You need a better photo or a look at it.

The other thing about black, as I remember black was not that common in the 1970s. I wonder if Dave had some stats on the number of black cars made in that time frame. Just because black is everywhere today not so 40 years ago.

Also please show me all these blacks or reds going for over $12,500, most of these cars are hard pressed to get much over $10K. I am not talking new in the wrapper black #2+ car with 20,000 miles like you are talking about. I am talking of the cars we see on eBay with over 50,000 miles and needing some work. Your average driver.

The highest sold listing of recent vintage is this one for $11,400 but it had 4700 miles and was yellow.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-Cadillac-DeVille-/332840732085?hash=item4d7eda85b5%3Ag%3AzjYAAOSwoAVbWj66&vxp=mtr&nma=true&si=idTfX0wmHPoIiD33%252Ff8AJI9l%252FFw%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
1959 Oldsmobile 98 Holiday Sports Sedan
1960 Cadillac Coupe Deville (CLC Sr #72)
1964 Oldsmobile 98 Town Sedan (OCA 1st)
1970 GMC C1500
1977 Oldsmobile 98 Regency Coupe
1978 Cadillac Coupe Deville (CLC Sr Crown #959)*
1992 Oldsmobile 98 (OCA 1st)
1996 Oldsmobile 98
*CLC Past President's Preservation

Past Cadillacs
1959 Coupe Deville
1966 Coupe Deville (Sr #861)*
1991 Eldorado Biarritz (Sr #838)

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

#17
Quote from: Joe Vastola on November 12, 2018, 05:07:29 PM
77' 2x White + red with 46K miles for sale on ebay for $9500 with best offer option.  Been for sale for a while and listed a couple times starting at over $12K.  Looks like fillers are already replaced just in need of pinstriping.  Better colors than original post and with leather which was a problem for the $9K car.  Touchable in the $8800-$9000 range I would guess. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1977-Cadillac-DeVille-Red-Leather/163322320403?hash=item2606c4d613:g:4RAAAOSw899bjwFb:rk:24:pf:0&vxp=mtr

Spoke with the seller of that one.
Both sides repainted above the body side molding to the pinstripe.
Paint is cracking. Small dent in hood. Needs other odds and ends.
Decent but far cry from a #2.
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

#18
Quote from: gkhashem on November 12, 2018, 05:32:21 PM
I can see some rust. Take a closer look at the front of the valve cover. Not just missing paint maybe more. But I cannot tell for sure.

I would like a better picture since I have seen some crusty examples of these cars. No on can tell from these photos. You need a better photo or a look at it.

The other thing about black, as I remember black was not that common in the 1970s. I wonder if Dave had some stats on the number of black cars made in that time frame. Just because black is everywhere today not so 40 years ago.

Also please show me all these blacks or reds going for over $12,500, most of these cars are hard pressed to get much over $10K. I am not talking new in the wrapper black #2+ car with 20,000 miles like you are talking about. I am talking of the cars we see on eBay with over 50,000 miles and needing some work. Your average driver.

The highest sold listing of recent vintage is this one for $11,400 but it had 4700 miles and was yellow.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-Cadillac-DeVille-/332840732085?hash=item4d7eda85b5%3Ag%3AzjYAAOSwoAVbWj66&vxp=mtr&nma=true&si=idTfX0wmHPoIiD33%252Ff8AJI9l%252FFw%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

What about the one you just posted? $14,300.

https://www.mecum.com/lots/CH1018-336768/1979-cadillac-coupe-deville/


Figures I am discussing concern #2 originals. Not repaint #2, not #3  that looks good from 20 feet or even 10. 

#3 is worth ~ half #2.

There are not more than a handful of #1 original Tri7 in existence.
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

#19
This was sold for $18K 5 years ago w/13,000 miles.

http://www.mcsmk8.com/77-CDV-BLACK/CARS-M.JPG

This was sold 7 years ago for $22K - 800 miles.

https://notoriousluxury.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/1977-sedan-deville.jpg

10 years ago '78 CdV 3x back -  cloth bench seat, no cruise, no tilt sold $14K - 16,000 miles. (No pics but I saw in person, later sold on eBay). 

20 years ago - 79 CdV sold at Manheim for $11K - 2x white w/red with 10,000 miles. Repainted R front fender, wrong antenna.
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute