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Roy Schneider Books

Started by BJM, November 19, 2018, 03:36:51 PM

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Ken Perry

My friend Cad Cliff gave me Cadillacs of the 40s and Cadillac 1950-1959  :) Years ago I had seen the book Cadillac 1950-1959 and wanted to buy it. I was at a Cadillac show at the Madonna inn and there was Roy Schneider with the book for sale,I wanted it bad,I couldn't realy afford it,so I walked away for a moment to think about it. I decided I should get it,went back,he had just sold it and said to me, you should have bought it,,,it was the last one he had and it is out of print :( I Wanted Cadillac 1950-1959  for years,,,so when Cliff gave me a copy,it was extra special to me ! And I lived happily ever after... ;)   
Cadillac Ken

BJM

Quote from: Bill Young on November 21, 2018, 12:12:32 AM
I am not going to approach the question of money exchanging for these books , however I do have definite opinion on their value as reference volumes. In my opinion they are invaluable to the serious Cadillac collector/student as is a book called Cadillac Eldorado by James Howell as it is full of interviews of the men who styled these classic Cadillac's. I would not part with my copies as long as I am alive. One Mans opinion

Bill I agree. The only reason I don’t buy the Howell book again is because I read it several times.  I am considering buying it again though 

This was a book I gave to 1/2 Price Zbooks when I cleared out my car books a few years back. 

veesixteen

RIDICULOUS prices.

I have all FOUR of Roy's books, the rarest being his "Sixteen Cylinder Motorcars" to which I even contributed a couple of photos, back in the 70s.
More recently I sent him many more pics for his planned 2nd (revised) edition. I don't know WHEN it will be published; too many "ifs"!
Anyone who has ever written or participated in book publication will know it's no easy task ... especially in the age of "digital" books, like my "Cadillac Database", first published in 1997: https://www.newcadillacdatabase.org/

But even a "digital book", that allows the writer to add, modify, complement text and images, requires much time and labor to remain "reliable" as well as up-to-date; that may explain why there have been so few updates to my "Database" since I renounced responsibility for it in 2011-12.
Because the scope of it is so broad, there is in it "MUCH content on a FEW topics" and  only "a LITTLE content on MANY topics". You can keep ALL readers happy SOME of the time, and SOME readers ALL of the time, but you can't keep them ALL happy ALL the time.

On the other hand, the Database is FREE! What can I say?
Yann Saunders, CLC #12588
Compiler and former keeper of "The Cadillac Database"
aka "MrCadillac", aka "Veesixteen"

Lexi

I had no idea that some of the Schneider books are potentially worth that much. It would be more interesting to see what they actually sell for, rather than the asking price. I suspect a lot of car enthusiasts are not really "book people", at least in a way that the bibliophile trade would identify with. That has been my experience in dealing with "car guys" for nearly 50 years, (and being a book collector myself). Most view such material as reference works first, rather than bona-fide collectibles. I can assure you that there are lots of expensive books out there. Some of their value is then exponentially increased should they prove to be an "association copy", for example. Others can have their value increase by many thousands of dollars if the book just had its dust jacket. Some are collected strictly for their binding, (book could be written in Swahili-collectors would not care in some circumstances). Rare, vintage works on early ship building exist whose value would exceed the value of most of this Forum's vehicles, on a car by car basis, as another example.

As for me, I view some of the literature as well as the related dealer ephemera, shop manuals, advertising, data books, owner's manuals and Master Parts Lists as related entities. They are all part of the "package" as it relates to my car, as it forms (in part) a small part of the vehicles provenance. Not ownership necessarily, but where it came from and what the company had to say about it at the time of manufacture. It is all part of the package as it tells part of the story about the vehicle. Build sheets, original invoices, etc., also compose part of that historical chain of information. While the book collecting trade sometimes does not recognize reference books as being "expensive", there are always exceptions. The collecting of trade catalogs, especially salesman's catalogs is a prime example.

The automobile is a fairly "recent" innovation and its collecting base continues to radically evolve. Compared to most other pursuits it could rank among the most complicated, hence problematic, as an automobile requires such diverse skills and expertise to produce and maintain such as; metal work, paint, textiles, glass, machine work, ephemera, the list is near endless. Most using this Forum see that and as such are a part of the process. You have elected to take the plunge and as such, have become an integral part of your car's story. Schneider's books probably best cover the history of Cadillac over the 3 volumes he published. What they eventually prove to be worth is up to what an individual decides to pay for them. I agree with Bill Young who wrote that "they are invaluable to the serious Cadillac collector". At face value, yes they are "reference books", but they are also much more. They are now early works that were produced at a time when many of these fantastic cars were still affordable to buy. We are lucky to be alive at this point in time and to be proactive participants in maintaining this aspect of our transportation heritage. Clay/Lexi

Clay/Lexi

BJM

I received my book and it is fabulous. It is more of a photo recollection than a nuts and bolts account of each year, but that is fine. 

I have $40 in this "Cadillac of the Forties."  Roy provides consummate details.  It is enchancing my understanding of the 1940's Cadillacs.  I know this era is a favorite of Cadillac collectors, but that group is also not growing.   

Unlike th 50's the forties to a point had a familiarity among the years. This is unique in my perspective until you get to the more homogenous 1970's and beyond.  Now, the model run for a car is 5-7 years with only minor changes.

In the 1950's, the goal was to change ever year if ever so marginally.  In the 1940's the war certainly created a hold on styling changes.  1942, 1946, and 1947 are demonstrably the same. 

1948 and 1949 the same.  (overall) 

Great book, great author.  He notes on the 1947's he has his personal car a 75 series in there.  Here boldly states he paid $400 for it in the late 1950's. 

Without question, this IS the poster child issue for those of us like me from a different generation that can not afford such a car now.  For many year those collectors that appreciated the thrown aside classics and neo-classics bought them at prices unheard of today.  It is true that they enjoyed them for what they were but then the speculative markets of the late 1980's created instant wealth.

Like owning a home in California or other high demand locales where you purchased for $20,000 and suddenly you own a $400,000 house.  Right place right time, but it does not serve the greater hobby interest to follow price guides in the interest of extreme profit. 

There is a trickle down that effects projects or stalled restorations.  I am glad that Mr Schneider was able to enjoy a series 75 for $400, but the current reality is hurting the ability of the club's to grow or sustain membership.

Lexi

Yes Bryan, I agree. Rather insightful actually. Much like those awesome posts a few years back by you on the 1950s Limousine market and pricing. That as well as those of the contributors made for fantastic reading. I agree that Schneider's works are actually more like a collection of data books and sales literature info, with key specifications listed, rather than a telling of the Cadillac story by way of dealing with the personalities and history of the time, (Hendry's work is probably best for that). I would add Hendry's book to the list as well, especially the double volume set. BTW, did you ever find a reasonably priced Limo??? I always wondered what the outcome of your search was. Clay/Lexi

cadillacmike68

#26
Quote from: lexi on November 21, 2018, 04:20:28 PM
I had no idea that some of the Schneider books are potentially worth that much.
Clay/Lexi

They're not. 

$65 to $200 on fleabay. You might also check advanced book exchange (abe.com).
Regards,
"Cadillac" Mike

Lexi

Quote from: cadillacmike68 on December 01, 2018, 11:31:13 PM
They're not. 

$65 to $200 on fleabay. You mighty also check advanced book exchange (abe.com).

That sounds more reasonable and what I would expect. Clay/Lexi

BJM

I received all of my Cadillac books and I am set for the winter.

I have Schneiders "Cadillacs of the 1940's"

The Hendry book just arrived.

I purchased a "Hemmings Motor Book of Cadillacs"  (Tests conducted in the magazine)

I have one called "Cadillac Classics" by ?  the folks from Collectible Automobile and Quarterly I think. 

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

This is one of the most indispensable Cadillac books I have read. Well written and a wealth of general information with data & pictures of individual models plus it is not very expensive.



A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

Lexi

#30
Yup. Definitely add that one to the must have list. I would also add the other notable Crest Line book, American Funeral Cars & Ambulances Since 1900, to the list as well. It's presentation and layout is consistent with that of the McCall book. Though not exclusively Cadillac, that brand dominates this work for obvious reasons. This work expertly documents the evolution of commercial chassis/professional vehicles which are not well represented in the above noted works. For historical reasons, owning this book along with the others would provide a near comprehensive history of all Cadillacs. The only other one I can think of at present would be to also have that volume on concept cars added to the collection, as there are some fine Cadillac cars presented there as well. Clay/Lexi

Jeff Maltby 4194

Jeffo 49er chapter

CLC 1985
Honda Gold Wing GL1500

Lexi

#32
Quite cheap for what has become an insanely priced book. Looking at the pictures it is clear that a previous owner has extensively marked the text with a highlighter, etc. Anathema to a book collector, basically trashing it's value. Rather like painting a mustache on the Mona Lisa. However for someone who just wants a reading copy that is a deal. Clay/Lexi