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472 rebuild problems running

Started by cadillac73, December 27, 2018, 03:18:14 PM

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cadillac73

Hello all. The garage that put my freshly rebuilt engine in just called and said it’s not firing right. They are blaming the carbon fiber plug wires, and are suggesting that I either switch those to steel core or change the ignition to HEI. Someone mentioned Pertronix?  What are your thoughts and what’s the easiest way to get this thing running?
Catherine Smith "Cat"
Pittston, ME  USA

1973 Coupe deVille 472
"Solid Gold"

"Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364

Cat,
I don't know how many hundreds of MILLIONS of passenger cars that were produced and ran successfully with carbon core, noise suppression spark plug wires. I will go out on a limb and suppose that the shop replaced the wires when they rebuilt the motor. If they did not they should.
Going to steel core wires will generate electrical noise when your radio is operating and will give you no better performance on a stock motor than the carbon core noise suppression wires.
Greg Surfas
Cadillac Kid-Greg Surfas
Director Modified Chapter CLC
CLC #15364
66 Coupe deVille (now gone to the UK)
72 Eldo Cpe  (now cruising the sands in Quatar)
73 Coupe deVille
75 Coupe deElegance
76 Coupe deVille
79 Coupe de ville with "Paris" (pick up) option and 472 motor
514 inch motor now in '73-

The Tassie Devil(le)

Get them to double-check the firing order, and where No. 1 actually is.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

35-709

I second that!  Make sure they understand #1 is the front one on the passenger side.  See this way too often with shops that think all GMs are the same and are Chevrolet educated.
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

Bobby B

Quote from: cadillac73 on December 27, 2018, 03:18:14 PM
  What are your thoughts and what’s the easiest way to get this thing running?

Find a shop that knows this engine or an old time mechanic with patience.......
                                                                                     Bobby

1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

35-709

Cat, this is a damn shame, sounds like you are right back where you were a year or more ago.
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

Glen

Quote from: "Cadillac Kid"  Greg Surfas 15364 on December 27, 2018, 04:33:54 PM
Going to steel core wires will generate electrical noise when your radio is operating and will give you no better performance on a stock motor than the carbon core noise suppression wires.

I have used steel core wires with resistor plugs on my 68 ELDO with no RFI problems.   
Glen Houlton CLC #727 
CLCMRC benefactor #104

76eldo

Firing order needs to be checked. It’s a common mistake.
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

TJ Hopland

Are they sure enough of their diagnosis that they will pay for all the parts and labor if it doesn't solve the problem?

Was the distributor new or rebuilt?  Make sure they understand how points work too.  If they are blaming the distributor and wires they may not own a dwell meter or know how to use one.

Does it have an AC compressor mounted?  If not one of the rear bracket holes goes into an intake runner, no bolt there would be a big vacuum leak. 
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

rajeevx7

Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on December 27, 2018, 04:52:05 PM
Get them to double-check the firing order, and where No. 1 actually is.

Bruce. >:D

I bet that’s right! But, they are saying “just change the wires”? Order a set from advance auto and try. If not (probably not) then the shop can send them back. Doesn’t seem like a high risk option to me to quell their fear of carbon 8)

cadillac73

I don't think it's going to change anything, but I just ordered an electronic distributor for the thing from Summit Racing. The garage is getting impatient and tired of working on it, and I'm so disappointed and sad with this whole year +-long saga. I really wanted the car back today because it's my birthday, but now it won't be until after the new year.   :-\ :( :'(
Catherine Smith "Cat"
Pittston, ME  USA

1973 Coupe deVille 472
"Solid Gold"

"Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364

Cat,
I second Bobby's post.  This is a SIMPLE engine and any decent mechanic should not be stymied by the ignition system. If you paid them to rebuild the engine they should not have a financial issue to make it right.
Greg Surfas
Cadillac Kid-Greg Surfas
Director Modified Chapter CLC
CLC #15364
66 Coupe deVille (now gone to the UK)
72 Eldo Cpe  (now cruising the sands in Quatar)
73 Coupe deVille
75 Coupe deElegance
76 Coupe deVille
79 Coupe de ville with "Paris" (pick up) option and 472 motor
514 inch motor now in '73-

Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373

First of all, happy birthday.

I understand the rebuild frustrations. Mine still idles like crap.
Make sure the shop is accounting for the decreased voltage at the coil with what they are trying to do now and also when they install the new distributor. I put the wrong coil on the 55 and the ballast resistor combined with the internal resistance coil made it so it wouldn't even back out of the garage.
Jeff
Jeff Rosansky
CLC #28373
1970 Coupe DeVille (Big Red)
1955 Series 62 (Baby Blue)
Dad's new 1979 Coupe DeVille

TJ Hopland

Which distributor did you get?   

Have you seen or heard what the issue is?  Or just going by what they are telling you?     
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Bobby B

Quote from: cadillac73 on December 28, 2018, 11:38:20 AM
The garage is getting impatient and tired of working on it.....

I knew that from your Post the second I read it. Throwing parts at something doesn't solve anything. I wouldn't have spent a dime on it, or a new distributor for that matter, until they told you EXACTLY what the issue was. Patience is a Virtue, and a lot of people today don't have any.......
                                                                                                                      Bobby
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

Marty Michaels

Cat check your distributor, make sure it is placed in correct. Just a thought Marty
Marty Michaels
1947 6269
1941 6019s
CLC#26833