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1960 fuel filter before or

Started by 60eldo, December 29, 2018, 02:40:13 PM

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60eldo

  Should the fuel filter on my 1960 be before the fuel pump or after it. Here in the pics as my car is idling, there just a few drops at the bottom of the filter. Is my fuel pump not working well? Shouldnt the filter be full of fuel.  Its idling fine but then at times appears to stall for a second, then idles again. With no filter before the fuel pump Im wondering if theres dirt getting in my pump and clogging it.
Jon. Klu

The Tassie Devil(le)

I always like a filter before the pump.

This way, the impurities don't go into the pump, thus prolonging the life of the pump.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Lexi

Before pump in this case would also mean less chance of engine heat impacting the plastic filter. I thought the clear plastic filters were intended to be situated in an area where engine heat would not be an issue. Knew of a '56 Caddy that went up in flames when the clear plastic fuel filter melted, spewing gasoline all over the engine bay. In that case the filter was mounted after the fuel pump. Clay/Lexi

60eldo

  Bruce I totaly agree, mine is after as you can see. But still the question is why when my car is runnig, theres barely any gas in the filter? Maybe I should put the filter before the pump, I still think my pump is on its way out.
Jon. Klu

60eldo

  So I just moved the filter but no change cars running and hardly any gas in the filter. Then I noticed the fuel pump and said to myself,,,,thats not the right pump and I dont even know what its from. Am I right. Whats this fuel pump off of? Maybe thats why its not pumping correctly.
Jon. Klu

David Greenburg

What you have there is a replacement (not AC) fuel pump; probably an Airtex or something similar. It is possible it is on its way out, perhaps aided by ethanol-laced gas, but you would probably notice that first with fuel starvation under load, or hard starting when hot.  The conventional setup has the filter after the fuel pump, but I agree you want to be very careful if using  plastic filter closecto the engine.
David Greenburg
'60 Eldorado Seville
'61 Fleetwood Sixty Special

The Tassie Devil(le)

Plus, notice the writing on the hose?   "NOT FOR FUEL"

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

35-709

 ;D  Believe the rest of the writing that has been cut off says, "Injection".
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

The Tassie Devil(le)

Ah ha, that would make sense.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

INTMD8

In this configuration, filter before the pump will not help. 100% sure of that.

Leave the filter after the pump.

Next, take apart the pump and tell me if the inlet/outlet valves are good.

:)

fishnjim

Laying on its side, inline filter is not likely to stay full.   Without a vent, can't push the air out.   Max. fuel flow here is on the order of 6 gal/hour - not a lot of movement.
Without researching, I'm not sure that's a proper filter for '60.   It's looks like a parts store universal in line.   I'd at least go to an all metal one to avoid the melting issue.
The factory/good practice usually had the filter after pump for two reasons; to protect the carb orifices from small particles and on the pressure side to aid filtering which adds pressure drop.   Fuel injection with it's smaller orifices, usually has two inline filters and much higher pressures, for comparison.
If you want pump suction protection, use something like a fuel screen, bigger openings.   Paper filter elements can also get wet and blind.
Putting filter before the fuel pump, sounds good, but reduces the pump's available suction head which isn't very much to begin with, and can starve the pump.  Good way to ruin a diaphragm.   Some add an electric pump at the tank to facilitate fuel movement, but that requires a bit of safety interlocks that they don't employ and is overcoming other fixable problems usually.   
Best to clean/replace/inspect the whole fuel system regularly, and repair/replace components if you're getting crap from the tank.   But no one wants to hear that word -work...
You can test the fuel pump for capacity and pressure.   Requires some flammables safety measures, but easiest is to just put a fuel pressure* gauge after the pump or take pump off and inspect.   Have a rebuild kit/gasket handy.
*- should be around 6 psig, no higher, otherwise you blow through the float shutoff.

Lexi

Well said, and yes the filter installed does not look original to me. The OEM filters were glass so no melting and as I recall always mounted after the fuel pump. Not 100% sure what went on the '60 but it was probably the old glass bowl type. Regular maintenance was necessary as they were designed to come apart to change the filter inside. They used a gasket to seal the glass bowl to the metal body. So anytime you have a gasket there is the potential for a leak to develop. So regular maintenance and checking is required. Clay/Lexi

Jon S

Quote from: lexi on December 30, 2018, 10:39:46 AM
Well said, and yes the filter installed does not look original to me. The OEM filters were glass so no melting and as I recall always mounted after the fuel pump. Not 100% sure what went on the '60 but it was probably the old glass bowl type. Regular maintenance was necessary as they were designed to come apart to change the filter inside. They used a gasket to seal the glass bowl to the metal body. So anytime you have a gasket there is the potential for a leak to develop. So regular maintenance and checking is required. Clay/Lexi

100% correct. And if there was any sediment, it fell to the bottom of the glass bowl.
Jon

1958 Cadillac Sedan De Ville
1973 Lincoln Continental Coupe
1981 Corvette
2004 Mustang GT

60eldo

  Agree that is not a stock filter its just the one that the car came with and I agree , maybe no where for the air to go. I will try this one , car has A/C.
Jon. Klu

Lexi

#14
That looks more like it. Originally I believe they had a "pumice" like stone inside as a filter. NAPA sells replacement paper cartridges (like the one in your picture). Not sure which one would be better, if any. Have used the NAPA paper cartridges without incident. At idle and warmed up, mine is usually almost void of fuel as well. Enough gets through to keep it running and so far without any vapor lock. But '56 engines ran hot, (my year), and those issues are not uncommon. If your car runs fine and without vapor lock throughout the summer, I would not worry about how much gas is visible in the filter. If of concern, conduct some volume tests to see what your fuel pump is delivering. If still worried install an electric fuel pump (with it's own filter) on a separate line that "T" intersects into the main fuel line after the fuel pump. Run off ignition but wire a shut off switch for safety reasons. Will help dry starts, save your starter motor, and perhaps stave off vapor lock if ever required. Electric pump should not exceed pressure of your OEM mechanical pump, which with this set up remains operational. If engine heat is still a concern look into installing a 6 bladed fan, if one not already in place. Clay/Lexi

Jon S

I run the "stone" cartridge in my filter. My bowl normally runs between 3/4 and full. What I like is that if there is any sediment falls to the bottom of the glass bowl as the filter works from the outside in. I don't have to clean it out often as I get very little sediment Year to Year.
Jon

1958 Cadillac Sedan De Ville
1973 Lincoln Continental Coupe
1981 Corvette
2004 Mustang GT

fishnjim

FYI:
On the A/C cars with the 3 way fuel bowl, the top port goes to the return line on the gas tank.   It may have been disconnected, if they put that other type filter on, maybe for cause - bad line, plugged, or something.   So do a little investigating before you get gas everywhere.   
Original AC 3 port fuel bowls are rare.   

David Greenburg

Johnny:

If that picture is the fuel filter assembly I sent you awhile back, it is the correct original for an a/c equipped car.  Tri-power cars use the same filter as 4 bbl cars.  The only variable is between non-a/c cars (2 openings) and a/c cars (3 openings, to attach the return line).
David Greenburg
'60 Eldorado Seville
'61 Fleetwood Sixty Special

"Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364

Just to review fuel filtering. In the tank on the fuel pick up there is a filter often called a sock that is the initial filter to screen out large chunks and small children. Anything that can get through this filter can readily get through the pump. The pump is good at pushing but poor for pulling so the final filter always goes after the pump and before the carb.
Air or vapor can stay trapped in these filters so on AC cars there is typically a ent at the top and the filter is mounted upright.
Greg Surfas
Cadillac Kid-Greg Surfas
Director Modified Chapter CLC
CLC #15364
66 Coupe deVille (now gone to the UK)
72 Eldo Cpe  (now cruising the sands in Quatar)
73 Coupe deVille
75 Coupe deElegance
76 Coupe deVille
79 Coupe de ville with "Paris" (pick up) option and 472 motor
514 inch motor now in '73-

Scott Halver

Hello All,
I have a stock glass ac filter between the fuel pump and the tri-power setup and an in-line filter just outside the gas tank (sock deleted by fuel tank company).   So all is good in cool weather but I have had problems with vapor lock.  Has anyone tried DRILLING-OUT the RETURN hole so that more gas moves through the system on cruise or idle, BUT still has enough gas to power the car if you "hit passing gear"  ?    How large of a hole/return ?

When my parents had the car, the "plumbing" was different in that someone deleted the stock glass filter and put an in-line filter with a "T" ……….   so that half the fuel went back to the gas tank.   My mom drove 35 mph and so WOT was not ever achieved or attempted.   The car NEVER VAPOR LOCKED.  I've re-built the motor and tri-power and want to be able to put the peddle to the metal at say 45 mph, downshift and go …… which I do now but if I drill out or enlarge the return hole I will start impacting the amount of fuel on WOT.

Thanks, SHalver $24920
1960 Eldorado Seville, Grandfather Bought New
1970 Corvette Convertible 350/350