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Power Windows on a 52, Hydro or all electric?

Started by 76eldo, January 10, 2019, 08:36:19 AM

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76eldo

Asking for a friend.
Are the windows hydro electric or all electrically operated?

Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

Barry M Wheeler #2189

Hydro with nasty brake fluid that can ruin your paint and upholstery...

It's funny, Carl Steig (and I think Ann still has) the full custom 1941 60S with electric windows. And once we were discussing that GM had also put hydraulics in a few cars to "test" which system was best. Of course, with only six volts to work with, the Hydraulics may have come out on top for overall dependability.
Barry M. Wheeler #2189


1981 Cadillac Seville
1991 Cadillac Seville

Lexi

#2
Steve Plunkett also owns a 1941 custom Limo, built for royalty, (41-62190), the so-called "Duchess". Plunkett describes it as a one off stretched Limo. That car has power windows which Schneider described as hydraulic, (can't recall if upgraded to electric). A buddy of mine changed his 1952 Fleetwood 60 Special to electric from hydraulic, (think his system was also upgraded to 12 volts). As Barry stated 1952 was hydraulic, which I think was the last year for that system (as well as 6 volts). Clay/Lexi

76eldo

Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

Dan LeBlanc

Quote from: lexi on January 10, 2019, 10:26:21 AM
Steve Plunkett also owns a 1941 custom Limo, built for royalty, (41-62190), the so-called "Duchess". Plunkett describes it as a one off stretched Limo. That car has power windows which Schneider described as hydraulic, (can't recall if upgraded to electric). A buddy of mine changed his 1952 Fleetwood 60 Special to electric from hydraulic, (think his system was also upgraded to 12 volts). As Barry stated 1952 was hydraulic, which I think was the last year for that system (as well as 6 volts). Clay/Lexi

12v came in 1953
Full electric windows and seat came in 1954.
Dan LeBlanc
1977 Lincoln Continental Town Car

Omarine

Hello all,

New to the forum - first post.  Ive revived this topic just to avoid flooding the forum with the hydro-electric windows subject.

Monday I got my first vintage caddy - a 52 Coupe de ville, very excited about it.

so Ive decided to flush the DOT 3 out of the system since the door paint got the usual DOT 3 scar at the bottom. 

My plan is to use denatured alcohol and ive ordered the leaky cylinder replacement.

I will also be replacing the rubber hoses so i can use ATF and not worry about it

questions:

Are the doors the only rubber hose sections? or do rear windows and seat have any as well?

Pump hoses appear newish - do those also need replacing for ATF?

How many flushes is safe for the pump gears using the denatured alcohol?

Need to get the hoses out this weekend to get replacements made next week...

thanks everyone!
cheers
oscar
1949 Harley Davidson FL
1952 Cadillac Coupe de Ville
1961 Chevy Impala 2 dr hardtop

gene harl

I replaced all of the hyd. cyl. on my 51  with elect. motors and gears from some rice burner I found at the wrecking yard.. just took a little time...., getting the angles right to push the windows up and down .. they have been working good now for a few years... I have pictures..........
  Gene Harl   ....................CLC22406.........                    775-423-8568

Omarine

Quote from: gene harl on December 12, 2019, 03:13:14 PM
I replaced all of the hyd. cyl. on my 51  with elect. motors and gears from some rice burner I found at the wrecking yard.. just took a little time...., getting the angles right to push the windows up and down .. they have been working good now for a few years... I have pictures..........
  Gene Harl   ....................CLC22406.........                    775-423-8568


thanks Gene! I am interested - did you convert to 12V? curious if those 6 to 12 V stop up converters would do the trick...

what about the regulator gear? was that out of junkyard car too?

Im trying to stay original as this car is pretty unmolested, but always willling to keep an open mind...

Can I text you later for those pics?
1949 Harley Davidson FL
1952 Cadillac Coupe de Ville
1961 Chevy Impala 2 dr hardtop

35-709

#8
Go to www.ebay.com   Put 1952 Cadillac Shop Manual in their Search engine.  You will find several for sale, the reprints are OK but the originals have clearer illustrations --- cheap, buy one!  Also buy a Fisher Body Manual, believe the one you want covers '49 to '52 and it covers all GM lines.  You will thank me for it (I hope).   ;D

Converting to all electric is a neat idea if you are not striving for complete originality.  Gene Harl's suggestion is good if you have the ability.  For more money, Specialty Power Windows  http://spwkits.clickforward.com/  has an excellent and very compete kit --- they have a universal one that would be right for your car.

Hmmm, forgot about the 6 volt thing, best to talk to Specialty about that if you go with them.
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

Omarine

Quote from: 35-709 on December 12, 2019, 03:55:11 PM
Go to www.ebay.com   Put 1952 Cadillac Shop Manual in their Search engine.  You will find several for sale, the reprints are OK but the originals have clearer illustrations --- cheap, buy one!  Also buy a Fisher Body Manual, believe the one you want covers '49 to '52 and it covers all GM lines.  You will thank me for it (I hope).   ;D

Converting to all electric is a neat idea if you are not striving for complete originality.  Gene Harl's suggestion is good if you have the ability.  For more money, Specialty Power Windows  http://spwkits.clickforward.com/  has an excellent and very compete kit --- they have a universal one that would be right for your car.

Hmmm, forgot about the 6 volt thing, best to talk to Specialty about that if you go with them.

Hello G.,

Thanks for the links! will check them out.  I actually have the shop manual that the previous owner gave me with the car. - would be nice to find a factory assembly manual but ebay isnt showing one.

  Unless Im missing something, all i could find was the wiring diagram.  I managed to google one but it was for a 49 Merc, which appeared pretty similar and shows rubber hoses at the doors and pump only but wanted to verify.

The car is a few hrs away, so M-F i have no access to check little details - weekend comes and I try to be as prepared as possible.
1949 Harley Davidson FL
1952 Cadillac Coupe de Ville
1961 Chevy Impala 2 dr hardtop

papas52cad

I have a 52 Fleetwood and it was previously converted to 12 v and the windows are electric. However due to the older and tired motors I ended up upgrading to the specialty PW universal system...much better, more reliable. The mechanic had to do minimal work to door panels to add the kit.
Specialty was excellent to work with.
Good luck, I am very happy the car did not have original hydro system based on all the potential issues.
Peter
1952 Fleetwood

35-709

There is an outfit in Sebastian, FL that sells large, full color electrical diagrams for just about any old car you can name ---even a '52 Caddy  :).  I bought one for the '42 I used to own.  I will post their website here a little later, I don't find it right now but I still have the '42 diagram in the shop with their contact info on it. 
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

35-709

Ah!  Just found it ---
Classic Car Wiring
PO Box 780012
Sebastian, FL 32978
Phone or Fax: (888)606-5319
order one on their website ---  https://www.classiccarwiring.com/
They are good-size and clearly done.
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

Omarine

Quote from: 35-709 on December 12, 2019, 04:27:05 PM
Ah!  Just found it ---
Classic Car Wiring
PO Box 780012
Sebastian, FL 32978
Phone or Fax: (888)606-5319
order one on their website ---  https://www.classiccarwiring.com/
They are good-size and clearly done.

THank you! i actually pass by Sebastian every FRI and SUN...

So i just called Universal, the tech was unsure about the 6V to 12 V converter- I'm sure someone has come across this but he didn't know for sure -

I do want to use a  12V radio, so that can be the test-case....still giving 6 V system a chance before jumping to conclusions about converting.
1949 Harley Davidson FL
1952 Cadillac Coupe de Ville
1961 Chevy Impala 2 dr hardtop

35-709

#14
 :)  I'm in Vero Beach!
Geoff N.
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

Omarine

that's awesome! it wont be long before it's road worthy and I will take it from Orlando to S FL and back again, will keep you posted!
1949 Harley Davidson FL
1952 Cadillac Coupe de Ville
1961 Chevy Impala 2 dr hardtop

35-709

1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

jackworstell

About using a 6V to 12V step up converter.

If you add a 12V battery ( say from a lawn tractor ) independent of the car's 6V battery
….then a step up converter might do you.

This is because while the peak amp draw might be significant, …. the average
overall amp draw is modest such that the converter can keep up with
the average amp requirement.

We added an electric power steering unit to our 1937 Cadillac
which of course is 6V ( positive ground )
These EPS unit can draw a lot of amps...in excess
of 30 amps in some circumstances.  But only for a brief period.

By adding a separate 12V lawn tractor battery and a step up converter( 6V to 12V)
….we were able to provide enough amps overall to run the
EPS.    The converter puts out only a few amps
but again overall amp draw is modest for an EPS even
though peak amps is high.

Jack Worstell

,,,,,,,one of our biggest problems with the converter was the poor instructions that come with
some of these things...….

Omarine

Quote from: jackworstell on December 13, 2019, 07:42:23 AM
About using a 6V to 12V step up converter.

If you add a 12V battery ( say from a lawn tractor ) independent of the car's 6V battery
….then a step up converter might do you.

This is because while the peak amp draw might be significant, …. the average
overall amp draw is modest such that the converter can keep up with
the average amp requirement.

We added an electric power steering unit to our 1937 Cadillac
which of course is 6V ( positive ground )
These EPS unit can draw a lot of amps...in excess
of 30 amps in some circumstances.  But only for a brief period.

By adding a separate 12V lawn tractor battery and a step up converter( 6V to 12V)
….we were able to provide enough amps overall to run the
EPS.    The converter puts out only a few amps
but again overall amp draw is modest for an EPS even
though peak amps is high.

Jack Worstell

,,,,,,,one of our biggest problems with the converter was the poor instructions that come with
some of these things...….


Hello Jack -

thanks for this insight! i will state up front that electrical is not my strength - I know just enough to be dangerous.

so in reading what you did - how did you incorporate the 12V tractor battery into the charging system?

Also, if the electrical power steering is 12 volt, and so is the additional battery, is the 6 - 12 V step up converter still necessary?  I thought the converter is needed if there were no 12V source.

Where did you mount the 12 batt? under the hood? in the trunk? very interested, since I'd like to run a period correct looking 12V radio and maybe the windows now too. 

thanks!
oscar
1949 Harley Davidson FL
1952 Cadillac Coupe de Ville
1961 Chevy Impala 2 dr hardtop

gene harl

my 51 has 2  6volt battery's  for a 12volt  system and a continuous duty solenoid center taping for the 6 volt  stuff..it works great...  if you want to know how ,,, my phone # 775-423-8568....  I  also use the 6 volt starter rewiring the fields... this is  5 years and 8000 miles..
  Gene Harl....     CLC22406