New member, possibly purchasing a 71 SDV.

[Caddysound]

Hello all.  Brand new member here after this forum kept coming up in Google searches.  Seems like a great place for info on these cars, and many helpful folks as well.

When I was a kid, my parents had a 75 Coupe DeVille, and ever since, I've loved the big old Caddys.  Had my own 1980 Sedan DeVille that was a $500 beater about 25 years ago, then got a "nice" 87 Brougham before I started buying modern cars. 

I've gotten the bug to get an old Caddy again, and  while I really want a 67-68 4dr hardtop, I found a 71 Sedan DeVille for sale locally, with "supposedly" 12k miles.  Still skeptical that it's not 112k, but I plan on checking it out in person tomorrow.  By the pictures, the interior looks mint aside from fading carpets, chrome is perfect according to seller, and no rust or rot. Seller is asking 6k obo.

My question is what should I look for when checking it out?  I know all the normal used car checks, but anything specific to these cars I should know? 

The seller got the car around 2007 from an estate sale and admitted to only putting about 500 miles on it since he got it, so going through all the fluids and rubber stuff will be on my checklist.  I've read about the nylon coated timing gear issue, and plan to address that. The plan is to go through all the mechanicals and keep it as a nice driver, and do some custom touches like air ride, nice sound system, and maybe some tasteful wheels, while preserving what I can and making sure it can be put back to original if desired.  I'll link the ad below.  What do you all think?

https://newjersey.craigslist.org/cto/d/mahwah-1971-cadillac-sedan-de-ville/6781354302.html

[rajeevx7]

No way is that 112k mile leather, and I doubt it’s been replaced.

That ac has been swapped to r134, so ask why/how. Looks like a cherry for sure

[Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373]

Nice looking car.
Jeff

[Scot Minesinger]

I bought a 1970 SDV with 32k miles on it in 2012 and now it has 39k miles.  This looks like a 12k miles car as opposed to 112k.  Look for documentation, such as oil change bills from say 2005 that show 11k miles and that kind of thing.  look for the story why it has such low mileage, such as original owner died after a year...etc.  The steering wheel on these cars are not durable and this looks like a low mileage car.  The driver door should close really well, like you don't even think about it.  For 6k, that is a fair price I think.  Keep in mind low mileage cars have their issues.

[Cadillac Fleetwood]

It's a nice-looking car, and the zodiac blue paint with white vinyl roof are most becoming. The leather looks soft and supple, and the steering wheel looks perfect.  I agree with Scot - This car does not look like it has 112K miles.

Interestingly, it is one of the earlier 1971s. All early 1971s had more vent slots in the deck lid than the later cars.  Early DeVilles with leather interiors were equipped with the "Florentine" metal trim on the dash and door panels. Later leather-equipped DeVilles used the "oriental tamo wood" appliques of the Eldorados and Fleetwoods.

-Charles Fares

[Rich S]

I agree with the other replies--this looks like the "real deal," an actual 12,000 mile example. This is an early in the model year production vehicle. It looks fairly well-equipped, too--with leather upholstery, the passenger side rear view mirror (first year offered remote controlled from factory) and even the GM authorized accessory rear bumper guards. In my opinion, the 1971 model year Cadillacs were exceptionally well styled and this color combination is quite attractive. Good luck!

[Barry M Wheeler #2189]

If you have a true low mileage car, it's already got "tasteful" wheels on it, and an adequate sound system. If you purchase it, it is of course, your car to do what you wish with it. but...

There is a saying in the old car business: "They're only original once." If you make the changes you propose, you will knock several thousand dollars off the value of the car and even though you "change it back" it won't be the same, and it will become "just another old car." Not the treasure that is is today.

I own a 1991 Seville with 23K on it. The original owner installed a modern radio in the car. Ruined perfect door panels putting new speakers in it. It will get me here and back for the rest of my life, but it's not the perfect jewel I wanted. Think carefully before you "modernize it."

In any case, welcome, and best of luck.

[Greg C]

expect to repair or replace,  heater core, radiator, water pump, upper/lower control arm and strut  bushings. Master and wheel cylinders,  calipers. Timing gear set. This is just for starters. Check for rust rear window corners and rust in trunk floor.   I think 71's are last non safety mandated designed Cadillacs, by 72 bumpers had optional bumper impact strips[ugly].  73  impact strips, plastic fillers and mandated ugly bumpers  and so on

[Scot Minesinger]

I did not read your post carefully.  An air ride requires suspension modifications that are expensive and difficult to reverse.  Plus there will be numerous holes drilled, and etc.  This will cut the value way down.  Same with a new sound system, best to send the original radio out and have it rebuilt with modern guts and blue tooth.  That way it looks original and can be brought back to that without dash repairs.  If the dash is not cut, value will be preserved.  same with the wheels, save the originals if you change them out.  Then if you go to sell it, install the original wheels. 

The main value in this car is the 12k "unmolested" original condition.  Modifying it will erase the "unmolested" attribute, and if you have a shop do the work instead of yourself, my experience is that they will really mess it up (especially suspension and radio).  I worked on a convertible where the sound shop previously with the "old car specialist" lowered the top and used a back hoe to remove the dash.  Seriously, they mess up dashes, breaking numerous plastic clips that anchor the dash, and after they are done it rattles and shakes.   

[gkhashem]

If you have a true low mileage car, it's already got "tasteful" wheels on it, and an adequate sound system. If you purchase it, it is of course, your car to do what you wish with it. but...

There is a saying in the old car business: "They're only original once." If you make the changes you propose, you will knock several thousand dollars off the value of the car and even though you "change it back" it won't be the same, and it will become "just another old car." Not the treasure that is is today.

I own a 1991 Seville with 23K on it. The original owner installed a modern radio in the car. Ruined perfect door panels putting new speakers in it. It will get me here and back for the rest of my life, but it's not the perfect jewel I wanted. Think carefully before you "modernize it."

In any case, welcome, and best of luck.

I am with Barry, it's a 4 door so the real value in the car is it's originality. If you modernize it you are diminishing the value. Especially a 4 door car. Don't even want to paint it unless there is a major issue. That includes under the hood.

This is my opinion but it's your car. By modernizing it you have decreased the demand by a significant amount.

[Caddysound]

Thanks for the replies.  Nice to know that it does seem like a true 12k mile car. That does change things as far as modifications go.  I figured you guys would be coming at me with torches and pitchforks!  First on the agenda is to go over all the mechanical systems and make sure they're up to par.  I do want to use and enjoy the car, and want to make sure everything is mechanically sound.  If it were a 12k mile Chevelle SS, that would be one thing, but how valuable is a 71 Sedan to begin with?  I do prefer survivor cars and the low mileage makes it that much cooler. 

I work at a stereo/accessory shop so I would be doing all the work myself.  One thing I will not do is cut up any original parts.  I hate when customers ask me to do that, but hey, it's their car.  If I find I need to modify anything, I will buy a spare a part to sacrifice.  My motto is heard but not seen.  Attached is something I did for a customer with an Eldo.  The ashtray still closes and is completely hidden when not in use.  I'd find a spare ashtray on ebay before I cut up the one in the car.  If the air ride requires anything to be modified in such a way that the oem springs and shocks can't go back in, that isn't happening either. 

[Barry M Wheeler #2189]

It sounds like you know what you're doing and will appreciate the car. When I have a "pitchfork" in my hands, I do (at least) try to be polite about it and not have a "holier than thou" attitude. Because it IS your car.

I drove a '72 SDV about the same color as a daily driver for some time. (I think it was the first car I ever bought with a 100K on it to start.) I think I paid $500 for it.

Some time later, I'd taken it to the service station overnight and left the keys in it. (You can do that in a small town). Except that this time, the owner's son called me in the morning and said, "Where did you leave the car? I've gone around the station twice and can't find it."

It turned out that it was swiped and found sitting in the middle of a street in town. Tom called me at work later and said that the tank was full of diesel fuel. One of the local businesses had a  couple of drum tanks on stilts and whoever took the car broke the padlock on the "wrong" tank. (One was diesel and one was gas.)  The culprit was preparing for a long trip. Tom drained the tank and got it running again.

I had fun trying to clean the finger print dust from the white leather interior later. Turned out to be a pretty good car.

Again, good luck.

[Caddysound]

It sounds like you know what you're doing and will appreciate the car. When I have a "pitchfork" in my hands, I do (at least) try to be polite about it and not have a "holier than thou" attitude. Because it IS your car.

I drove a '72 SDV about the same color as a daily driver for some time. (I think it was the first car I ever bought with a 100K on it to start.) I think I paid $500 for it.

Some time later, I'd taken it to the service station overnight and left the keys in it. (You can do that in a small town). Except that this time, the owner's son called me in the morning and said, "Where did you leave the car? I've gone around the station twice and can't find it."

It turned out that it was swiped and found sitting in the middle of a street in town. Tom called me at work later and said that the tank was full of diesel fuel. One of the local businesses had a  couple of drum tanks on stilts and whoever took the car broke the padlock on the "wrong" tank. (One was diesel and one was gas.)  The culprit was preparing for a long trip. Tom drained the tank and got it running again.

I had fun trying to clean the finger print dust from the white leather interior later. Turned out to be a pretty good car.

Again, good luck.

That's a crazy story.  I have a theft story with a 68 4 door Tempest i had bought for $100.  I had it parked at the mall with the windows down and when I came out it was gone!  I couldn't believe someone stole my $100 car!  I went to security and they weren't really interested in helping.  Turns out I just forgot where I parked it, haha! 

[GBrown #8092]

Kind of agree with everyone here.

Having bought a 18000 Mile '72, I drive (okay, drove-long story)regularly, understand that time can deteriorate soft parts, and mechanical bits that have not been properly maintained or prepared for long storage  even with the low mileage.  My 9500 mile 76 on the other hand had much better care and storage and does not seem to suffer from similar problems

Its your car,  and you can do what you want to to it, but I urge you to keep the mods to a reverseable minimum.   Your explanation of what you plan to do, seems to be within those parameters. I must say your proposed audio upgrade sound intriguing, wish you were closer and we could explore that a little more in person for my 90's cars.   I'd steer clear of the air ride though.  While i do understand that TV is not reality, I have yet to see one done which didn't seem to trash everything original.

Sounds like a great car, if it were closer you might have a bit of competition on buying it.

Glenn

[Caddysound]

Well, I checked it out today and took it for a quick spin around the block.  I have to say, I'm not as in love with it as I thought I would be.  Cold feet maybe?  The paint was pretty good, especially for 47 years old, but had fine cracks in the hood (my 87 had the same thing) and the paint on the trunk was faded in spots.  Also had little scratches in various places all over with poor touch ups done.  He did mention the paint on one door looked a little off, I couldn't tell as it was starting to get dark, but did seem like there was some bondo work done.  The good part is that I really couldn't find any rust anywhere.  Vinyl top is in good shape with some slight shrinking in one of the back corners.   No bubbling underneath that I could tell.   Underneath the car looked solid, only typical surface rust on the frame which I would expect.

He had taken it to put gas in it before I got there, and installed a new battery, so I couldn't do a cold start, but seemed to run well, with a very slight misfire at idle, barely noticeable.  I didn't even notice until he pointed it out. Last time he drove it was over three years ago, so could just be the old gas, and I'm sure it could use a simple tune up.  Acceleration was smooth, and the transmission was like butter.  Valve covers were leaking and there was oil on the bellhousing, and the pinion seal on the diff has a bit of oil around it. The power steering did bind a little when pulling out of the driveway.  Front springs are sagging and there was noticeable negative camber on the front wheels.  You can tell the car doesn't sit level.  Car drove straight with the steering wheel at 1 o'clock.  One thing I thought was odd is that the rear has coilover shocks, but no sign of the factory leveling system.  I assume there would be a compressor on the driver front fender?  I thought people did the coilover shocks to replace non functioning air shocks?  There's wobble coming from the rear at low speeds which I would attribute to old tires (radial, not bias play), although I wouldn't rule out a bent wheel.  The brakes feel as good as any modern car, and it rides smooth like a Cadillac should. 

The interior is pretty mint.  The carpets are a bit faded in spots around the edges, but not worn.  He also has the original rubber mats with the Cadillac crest.  Everything works, but the Climate Control is a little wonky, the fan wouldn't always come on in the lo, auto, and high settings, or fog, but always in the ice setting.
The vent setting caused a relay to keep clicking under the dash.  Totally forgot to check if the compressor turned on.  The dash illumination was not working either.  The rear defroster works in both speeds, and even the little indicator light works. The car does have the passenger side mirror, but no remote adjustment for it.  Was that optional?  No power locks either, which I thought would have been standard, but I suppose not.  Surprisingly, no squeaks or rattles on the test drive.  The seats really do look like nobody ever sat in them, and the power adjustment works perfectly.

I'm still mulling over it.  If it were the 67-68 body style I really want, the decision would be easier.  I also want to put miles on it and would feel less guilty driving an 80 or 100k mile car.  If anyone here wants to scoop it up, be my guest, haha!  That would make my decision that much easier.  If I do go ahead with it I'll be sure to post plenty of pics! 

[TJ Hopland]

The level ride was optional on the Deville.   The compressor was vacuum powered and its kinda hidden in the passenger side fender on the 71-77's.   Earlier I think it was more visible. Later was the electric one.    Maybe the original owner always had passengers and a full tank of gas so even when it was new it didn't ride level?

The climate control blower sounds like its one of the temp switches.   To get the blower to run in all but DEF modes one of two temp switches had to activate.   If the system is asking for AC it checks an interior sensor to be at least 60*F.   If you are asking for heat it checks a temp sensor on the right head behind the alternator for the engine to be at least 120*F.  The one behind the alternator is just a single slide on tab so it often gets knocked off when changing an alternator.  The sensor grounds when it reaches temp so to bypass or test you just have to ground the wire.   If the car had more miles there would be a chance someone got the sensors mixed up with the one on the left rear which doesn't kick on till like 270*F but that seems unlikely on a 12K car.

[Caddysound]

OK, I'm starting to lean more toward picking it up.    Seems like the car is in the perfect condition for me to enter into the world of classic car ownership.  Climate control seems like something I can handle, I've been doing 12v stuff for 25 years so I'm confident I can handle any sort of electrical issues.  I've been tasked with tracking down electric gremlins in old Jaguars and a Pantera, and came out on top, so this. Caddy should be no different.  All the mechanical issues seem pretty straight forward and I have access to a shop and a lift, so I'm kinda fortunate in that regard. 

Air ride seems like too much of a hassle at this point, and saw OPG has lowering springs for the car, so I may just do that to get the ride height I want, as long as I need new springs anyway.  Then it easily could easily be put back to stock if I ever wanted to sell. 

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

A little elbow grease can accomplish a lot. Of course not seeing the car in person makes it impossible to determine which areas will respond well to paint correction and which will not.

If the car has a multitude of dings, dents and deep scratches, there's only so much you're going to be able to accomplish and this is a color that's usually difficult to match touch up paint.

Don't be in a hurry - think critically about what the car needs and whether you'll be able to live with the total you'll be "in it" for. Strong interior is a major plus. Also check the vinyl roof for bumps, especially below the rear window. This is a known problem area on cars of this era with vinyl roofs.

You could be realistically looking at $12K when done without any major restoration work including the purchase price. That kind of money could buy a '71/'72 SdV on a completely different level of condition than this car will ever be. This should be kept in mind.

[Caddysound]

Some good advice.  I'm not concerned with bringing the car back to Concours condition, or being judged, ever.  I'm happy with it being a 20 footer.  I'll probably do what I can to improve the appearance of the paint, but I'm not going crazy.  So far, parts that I've seen for the car are surprisingly cheap.  Can anyone vouch for the parts from OPGI?  P/S pump for instance is $130.   I would have expected double that since the car is so old. 

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Mechanical parts are generally, and relatively, inexpensive.

It's the cosmetic issues where the bills become pricey.