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1972 Fleetwood 472 CI Timing Adjustment?

Started by hokethompson, January 23, 2019, 12:40:34 PM

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hokethompson

Hello!

I am new to this forum. I'm sure y'all will be seein' my name on here a lot. I've had my 72' Fleetwood Brougham (472 CI) for about a month now and have gotten her running to a, well, "running-driving around town" condition. Still some things to work through. Anyways, I'm 20 years old, and very new to this "old" stuff  ;D, given that I've really only known "new" stuff my entire life (fuel injection, computers, blah blah blah)... I'm trying to figure out how to adjust the timing electronically... Is it like the old school kind of "loosen the bolt on the shaft and turn to advance/retard - using a timing light?" or do I not mess with it? I'm new to all of this! That old Quadrajet carb is very happy, and well adjusted. Fuel system is cleaned out! Wires and plugs could probably use replacing. Points and the cap look brand new. Just runs a little sloppy. She diesels when you turn it off (not overheating, brand new cooling system...maybe high idle/timing??). Anyways, any help on this timing dilemma would be great. And maybe any other tips on owning a classic caddy?? Thanks!

Hoke T.
Charlotte, NC
1972 Fleetwood 60-Special Brougham

69Deville


You will want to get yourself a shop manual which will walk you through everything. As for the timing, yes you loosen the shaft and turn to adjust.

Here is a link to a cheap used shop manual on eBay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1970-Cadillac-Shop-Manual/332935402237?hash=item4d847f12fd:g:0WYAAOSwsGpcAref
1969 Cadillac Deville Convertible
1966 Cadillac Series 60 Fleetwood
1996 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham-sold :(

"Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364

Hoke,
First of all I would suggest getting your own copy of the factory service manual for 1972. It will be invaluable in diagnosing and repairing "glitches" as they arise in your car.
Working backwards form your Dieseling issue.
Your car is supposed to have an "idle stop solenoid". It's purpose is to crack the throttle slightly when the key is turned on and when you turn the key off it closes them completely. It is also used to adjust the idle speed, rather than the adjustment in the linkage.  If this is not adjusted correctly, the throttles will not close completely and "run-on" will result.
Going back to the Ignition,  you need a dwell meter and a timing light.  The dwell should be set first (I use 30 degrees) and then using the timing light the distributor timing is adjusted as described in the service manual./  There are a couple of steps and rather than me just reading them off and writing them down I would suggest you do this yourself using the manual.  I am assuming you are interested in your car's mechanics, and I can not think of a better way to learn than to do it yourself with the manual's guidance.
Greg Surfas
Cadillac Kid-Greg Surfas
Director Modified Chapter CLC
CLC #15364
66 Coupe deVille (now gone to the UK)
72 Eldo Cpe  (now cruising the sands in Quatar)
73 Coupe deVille
75 Coupe deElegance
76 Coupe deVille
79 Coupe de ville with "Paris" (pick up) option and 472 motor
514 inch motor now in '73-

hokethompson

On my list to purchase... Dwell Meter, timing light, and that shop manual. All sound very useful! Also going to look into that idle stop solenoid. I think I've read something somewhere online that talks about that. It's so hard to find stuff on the internet for this car. Diagrams, understanding weird parts I don't know, etc etc...Thank you guys! I'll be around here a lot I'm sure.  :D

Hoke T.

Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373

#4
Jeepers---- Nobody has said "Welcome" to this guy and asked him to post pictures.

Soooo, Welcome. Please post pictures!

Seriously tho, you will find this forum full of knowledge-but there is no substitute for a manual. I prefer electronic because I have it on my phone. I can just print out what I need. Don't be afraid to ask questions. I have asked some doozies. Thats how we all learn.
Glad to see you liking old cars while in your 20's. My son likes our 55 and even takes it to hi school.
I am sure people will cringe when they read this but basic stuff can be found on youtube. While not Cadillac specific you can see how to do points, timing, brakes, etc. Watch a video and then post questions here for Caddy specific help.
Cheers,
Jeff
Jeff Rosansky
CLC #28373
1970 Coupe DeVille (Big Red)
1955 Series 62 (Baby Blue)
Dad's new 1979 Coupe DeVille

69Deville

My apologies. I grabbed the eBay link for a 1970 instead of 1972.
1969 Cadillac Deville Convertible
1966 Cadillac Series 60 Fleetwood
1996 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham-sold :(

chrisntam

Yes, welcome and post pictures!  Let's see that beast!

8)

A good price on a manual (for a '70) is around $25 + shipping.   Some sellers hold out for more money....  Buy two so you'll always have at least one handy!

;)
1970 Deville Convertible 
Dallas, Texas

Mike Josephic CLC #3877

Hello Hoke and welcome to the Forum!

You'll get the hang of setting points, plugs, timing
and all the other routine maintenance in no time.
I enjoyed doing all those things every 10k miles
or so.  It was a necessary thing in the 60's when
I owned my first cars. 

If we can be fo any further help, just ask.  We all
had to learn these things the first time!

Mike
1955 Cadillac Eldorado
1973 Cadillac Eldorado
1995 Cadillac Seville
2004 Escalade
1997 GMC Suburban 4X4, 454 engine, 3/4 ton
custom built by Santa Fe in Evansville, IN
2011 Buick Lucerne CX
-------------------------------------
CLCMRC Museum Benefactor #38
Past: VP International Affiliates, Museum Board Director, President / Director Pittsburgh Region

MaR

Make sure that you are using at least 91 octane

The Tassie Devil(le)

Here is a picture of the Anti Dieseling Solenoid, or as it is also called, the Throttle Stop Solenoid.

It is the round thing on the right side of the coil with the small brass-looking pushrod coming out of it.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

MaR

In late '74, there was an article in an issue of the Cadillac Serviceman technical service bulletins that the anti-dieseling solenoid was not needed and just to disconnect if it was malfunctioning.

TJ Hopland

Temporary band aid for the dieseling problem is to leave the transmission in gear when you turn the key off.  Doesn't matter if its D or R.   Just remember to put it into park after the engine actually quits before you get out of the car.   The extra drag of the transmission being in gear will 'kill' the engine so you won't feel like Uncle Buck.    If you don't get that reference just do an internet search for Uncle Buck car.

If you are in a decent sized metro area watch places like craigs list for tools like a dwell meter and timing light.  Sometimes they are called auto meters or engine analyzers.   Just look at the photo of anything in the tools or auto parts sections that looks like an analog meter or a gun.  They are not much use on cars after the 80's so a lot of people sell them if they don't have a really old car or when they are cleaning out dad's or grandpa's garage.  The dwell meter look for one that has 3 wires,  there would be a black, red, and another color single wire.  Timing light similar red and black and then the 3rd should be a enclosed clamp not a metal clip.  That is called an inductive timing light where you are just clamped around the wire rather than having to get on bare metal.  Something called 'dial back' can also be handy but isn't critical most of the time.   I got a Snap On one I paid $50 for.   Guy was a new tech and bought it new thinking he was going to need one.  He said he had it sitting in his toolbox for 3 years and never needed it so he sold it.   Lots of deals like that out there if you just keep your eye out.           
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

hokethompson

seeing all these replies makes me feel very welcomed! I will post pictures of it here very soon. I'm gonna dig deeper into that diesel solenoid later today, but, in the meantime  Definitely going to be turning her off in drive/ reverse. Turns out my old man has an old timing light and a dwell meter tucked away in his garage and i'm going to pick those up later, hoping they work. She's no "Concours" or showroom caddy. Picked her up for 800 bucks from a guy here in Charlotte. I think y'all will be surprised at what I *drove*! home and for what I paid/condition etc. she's a real beast. i'll be back soon with pics!

Hoke T.

MaR

Quote from: hokethompson on January 24, 2019, 12:15:57 PM
seeing all these replies makes me feel very welcomed! I will post pictures of it here very soon. I'm gonna dig deeper into that diesel solenoid later today, but, in the meantime  Definitely going to be turning her off in drive/ reverse. Turns out my old man has an old timing light and a dwell meter tucked away in his garage and i'm going to pick those up later, hoping they work. She's no "Concours" or showroom caddy. Picked her up for 800 bucks from a guy here in Charlotte. I think y'all will be surprised at what I *drove*! home and for what I paid/condition etc. she's a real beast. i'll be back soon with pics!

Hoke T.

My '74 Coupe deVille I had long ago would diesel like you describe until I started using higher octane fuel.

Scot Minesinger

Guys,

Look on general discussion and you will see the pictures of the 72 Fleetwood.


Hoke,

Get the shop manual as everyone suggests, it is worth its weight in gold.  Read it.  Most mechanics do not read it, guess, and then the Cadillac owner posts on this forum about a faulty repair job.  To set timing it is done with car in drive (use a friend with foot on brake, rather than e-brake with auto release disconnected), many miss that part.  The manual explains everything as if you never held a wrench before - extremely well written.


Enjoy!
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373

Quote from: Scot Minesinger on January 24, 2019, 11:49:19 PM
  To set timing it is done with car in drive

At the risk of hijacking the new guys thread, I am going to ask...... Other than lowering the idle, what effect does having it in drive have?
Jeff
Jeff Rosansky
CLC #28373
1970 Coupe DeVille (Big Red)
1955 Series 62 (Baby Blue)
Dad's new 1979 Coupe DeVille

"Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364

Jeff in drive you are setting the idle under the same conditions the car will see when you stop at a stop light
Greg Surfas
Cadillac Kid-Greg Surfas
Director Modified Chapter CLC
CLC #15364
66 Coupe deVille (now gone to the UK)
72 Eldo Cpe  (now cruising the sands in Quatar)
73 Coupe deVille
75 Coupe deElegance
76 Coupe deVille
79 Coupe de ville with "Paris" (pick up) option and 472 motor
514 inch motor now in '73-

gkhashem

1959 Oldsmobile 98 Holiday Sports Sedan
1960 Cadillac Coupe Deville (CLC Sr #72)
1964 Oldsmobile 98 Town Sedan (OCA 1st)
1970 GMC C1500
1977 Oldsmobile 98 Regency Coupe
1978 Cadillac Coupe Deville (CLC Sr Crown #959)*
1992 Oldsmobile 98 (OCA 1st)
1996 Oldsmobile 98
*CLC Past President's Preservation

Past Cadillacs
1959 Coupe Deville
1966 Coupe Deville (Sr #861)*
1991 Eldorado Biarritz (Sr #838)

Scot Minesinger

Jeff,

Never thought about why the timing needs to be set with foot on brake and in D, but the at red light explanation makes sense.  That is what I'm talking about though, what may seem conventional practice for mechanical work is actually a little different in the shop manual.  That is why I read it even for what may seem the most simple of projects.  Keeps me from doing things twice, wrong, and etc.

One of the only major deviations on mechanical work I do (or have done so far) on these 1965-76 (and other years) Cadillacs is for rear spring removal and install, I use a set of spring compressors rather than dropping the rear axle - much easier - and not cheating.
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

Cape Cod Fleetwood

Quote from: Scot Minesinger on January 24, 2019, 11:49:19 PM
Guys,

Look on general discussion and you will see the pictures of the 72 Fleetwood.


Hoke,

Get the shop manual as everyone suggests, it is worth its weight in gold.  Read it.  Most mechanics do not read it, guess, and then the Cadillac owner posts on this forum about a faulty repair job.  To set timing it is done with car in drive (use a friend with foot on brake, rather than e-brake with auto release disconnected), many miss that part.  The manual explains everything as if you never held a wrench before - extremely well written.


Enjoy!

Scot,
would having the car on a lift just high enough to get the wheels off the ground and in drive be the same thing?

\m/
Laurie
There are 2 kinds of cars in the world, Cadillac and everything else....

The Present -1970 Fleetwood Brougham

The Past -
1996 Deville Concours
1987 Sedan De Ville "Commonwealth Edition"
1981 Coupe De Ville (8-6-4)
1976 Sedan De Ville
1975 Sedan De Ville

The Daily Driver and work slave -
2008 GMC Acadia SLT *options/all