Tires

[spolij]

Someone mentioned tires on a resto job for i think a mid 60's deville. They said you could be disqualified if they weren't originale. Does anyone remember what post that was?

[35-709]

That is absolutely untrue.  You might lose a few points on the judging sheet for tires with the incorrect style whitewalls or for radial tires.  I would never drive on 1960s original tires to a car show, and to drive there on new tires and switch to actual originals once at the show is not something I would do for a few points  ----  but there are those that do!  You can buy original type bias-ply tires from Diamondback (or Coker) in the correct whitewall style and not lose any points!  But disqualify, never.

[Cape Cod Fleetwood]

X2 on the DiamondBacks, they own the "period correct but its a radial market".

\m/
Laurie

[Scot Minesinger]

If you are going to drive your Cadillac much then I would buy the radials from Diamondback.  The bias-ply from Diamondback has some reason it is a deduction on points even with correct white wall pattern.  Here re pictures of the correct Diamondback radial white wall.  The double strip tires really dress it up.  But to your question, no disqualification at GN for any tire that lets the car roll in.

[spolij]

Thanks for all the info.
John

[Bob Kielar]

Scott I don’t believe Diamonds Back tire offers a true bias ply tire rather it is a radial that looks like a bias ply. That might be where the point deduction is.

Keep Cruzin,

Bob Kielar

[35-709]

I was the one that first said Diamondback sells bias-ply tires but that was a mistake.  They do sell radials that are bias-ply look-a-likes but they only sell radial tires. 

[Cape Cod Fleetwood]

If you are going to drive your Cadillac much then I would buy the radials from Diamondback.  The bias-ply from Diamondback has some reason it is a deduction on points even with correct white wall pattern.  Here re pictures of the correct Diamondback radial white wall.  The double strip tires really dress it up.  But to your question, no disqualification at GN for any tire that lets the car roll in.

Scot I believe the reason for deduction (per tire) is the tire not being labeled with the OEM manufacturer of 'that' tire. I only read the judges manual once and I'm sure someone will pounce if this statement is incorrect.

The OP only mentions a "mid 60's" Cadillac, the whitewall tires differ for several of the mid 60's years. as a single white wall, dual white wall and triple white wall are correct, while some are optional, depending on the year. Here's the details from the judging manual -

Wheels and Tiresâ€"Wheels and
Tires must be the same size, type, and
manufacture, except for those models
with asymmetric tires; in this instance,
the sizes must be the same as the original
or optional tires. If tires have whitewalls,
all must have the same whitewall width.
Original spare tires are allowed without
an authenticity deduction. But, if the
spare tire has been replaced, the spare
tire must match the four on the ground.
The foregoing statement about matching
spares does not apply to those cars
equipped with space-saver spares, no
spares (run-flat tires) etc. Also, some cars
with alloy wheels will have a different
wheel, e.g. steel, for the spare.

The exact specs for the correct tires are spelled out in Appendix B.

Here are the penalties for tire sins 1903-1966 -

CH.14 Tire Type
. Not as new............................ â€"1/wheel (A)
CH.15 Tire Size
. Not as newâ€"standard
or optional............................. â€"1/wheel (A)
CH.16 Tire Whitewall and Manufacturer
. Incorrect whitewall width
and/or pattern..................... â€"1/wheel (A)
. Manufacturer name
missing or not OEM........... â€"1/wheel (A)
CH.17 Tire Condition
Note: Check inside
and outside of tire
. Less than 50 percent
tread, cord showing...............................â€"5
. Condition not as new..................â€"1 to â€"4


\m/
Laurie

[Scot Minesinger]

Laurie,

You are 100% correct, and there are no correct 1970 (and other years) tires available to buy new at any price that will not result in a point deduction (maybe some judges do not deduct, but they should if rules are followed strictly).  Some people have original tires (bias ply) that they can install at shows to avoid a deduction, but very few do and they can not be used to drive on the road safely (maybe a parking lot is OK).  Hence for this reason and others, my divorce from the CLC judging and showing - there is no way to enjoy a car that can be driven to GN (on same tires that you drove safely to GN) without suffering a point deduction (but never disqualified) on the tires. 

I just drive my car to GN and enter it for display - problem solved and everyone is happy.

I plan on driving to KY this summer in my red 1970 DVC and entering it for display.

[Cape Cod Fleetwood]

Scot enter the car in Touring, have some fun.
Horse shows, car shows, the Kentucky Derby, the Daytona 500 - knowing your weaknesses divided by your ability to succeed is directly proportionate to who else shows up.
I know to the POINT how hard The Ark could be hit in the Touring Class 22... any number less than that is a win for us.

\m/
Laurie

[Scot Minesinger]

Laurie,

Not true about showing up.  You cannot win an award by showing up.  You can only win an award by scoring high enough points.  There can be in theory, 6 first places if ten cars in one class show up or no first places, another reason for my divorce from judging at CLC.  There is no incentive to show up strictly because if there are only three Cadillacs in one class you are guaranteed a third place.  My car competed in primary for a decade at GN's from upstate NY to GA and scored a few 2nd's and 3rd's, but not a first. 

I will have fun driving and showing (display only) my 1970 DVC in display at GN2019 in KY, and the CLC members will get to enjoy seeing it - everybody wins!

[Cape Cod Fleetwood]

Laurie,

Not true about showing up.  You cannot win an award by showing up.  You can only win an award by scoring high enough points.  There can be in theory, 6 first places if ten cars in one class show up or no first places, another reason for my divorce from judging at CLC.  There is no incentive to show up strictly because if there are only three Cadillacs in one class you are guaranteed a third place.  My car competed in primary for a decade at GN's from upstate NY to GA and scored a few 2nd's and 3rd's, but not a first. 

I will have fun driving and showing (display only) my 1970 DVC in display at GN2019 in KY, and the CLC members will get to enjoy seeing it - everybody wins!

"You cannot win an award by showing up." True to a point, no pun intended. If the other cars in your class that show up are dogs, and your's is nicer, you just won by showing up.

HAVE FUN! This is what its all about!

\m/
Laurie

[Scot Minesinger]

I do win by showing up.  But just because you show up, does not a prize guarantee.

The fun at GN when you bring a show car is the drive there and back in an old car that performs as new, sharing it with fellow CLC members and driving it around during GN.

[Cape Cod Fleetwood]

I do win by showing up.  But just because you show up, does not a prize guarantee.

The fun at GN when you bring a show car is the drive there and back in an old car that performs as new, sharing it with fellow CLC members and driving it around during GN.

And I look forward to doing just that! When the GN is held in New England again. If I have a catastrophic issue its better to be flat bedded home than have to call Kallita. LOL!

\m/
Laurie

[Mike Josephic CLC #3877]

Folks, that's not how the judging system works.  This
is a common misconception and not correct.  It's
not a matter of "who shows up" at a CLC Grand
National.  In a local show, yes, that's the usual
criteria.

Your car is judged against a STANDARD and that is
how the car is judged vs. how it was originally delivered
to the original owner.  That's spelled out in the Judging
Rules for each class.

Your car is not judged against the other vehicles entered
in the class.  If there are no vehicles in the class that
manage to achieve the minimum number of points to
win a class award then there are no awards for that class.

Granted, that would be unusual, but please understand
the difference.

Mike

[Scot Minesinger]

Mike,

We are in agreement. 

Laurie was just trying to say even if you do not win a prize by showing up, you still win because it is fun.

It is not a matter of showing up, it is a matter of points (or a standard).  You can be the only one show car in a class and win any or no prize, based on points, as opposed to judged against other cars.  It used to be on a low attendance GN (2016 and before) you could pick up an award if your car was decent just because you showed up, but not now unless it meets standard of point basis.

It is some work to bring a car to the GN though which I plan to do because it is fun (and therefore I win on fun, fun alone, no prize).  Let's hope others think alike on this, as last year was very low number of cars on show field, yet near record people attendance.  There is no GN without the Cadillac and LaSalle show cars.  I just mailed in my registration for my red 1970 DVC pictured on this post, and for myself and girlfriend.

Enjoy your Cadillac,

Scot

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

  Some people have original tires (bias ply) that they can install at shows to avoid a deduction, but very few do and they can not be used to drive on the road safely (maybe a parking lot is OK).

Not this again. 

This is an opinion and it would be appreciated if you expressed it as such.

[Scot Minesinger]

America is great because among many benefits you can write your opinion down as many times as you want under the first amendment of the constitution.  If I state that 50 year old tires are unsafe to drive on the highway, that is of course my opinion.  It is a free Country and if someone believes it is safe to drive the highway on 50 year old tires then, I just hope I'm not on the same highway as them unless they are behind me. 

Just about everything written on this forum is opinion.  Otherwise it would be super dull.  If everyone's opinion matched and agreed there would be no exchange of ideas.  That is one of the disadvantages of living in other Countries.

Eric my friend I will see you in KY this June!

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

America is great because among many benefits you can write your opinion down as many times as you want under the first amendment of the constitution.  If I state that 50 year old tires are unsafe to drive on the highway, that is of course my opinion.  It is a free Country and if someone believes it is safe to drive the highway on 50 year old tires then, I just hope I'm not on the same highway as them unless they are behind me. 

Just about everything written on this forum is opinion.  Otherwise it would be super dull.  If everyone's opinion matched and agreed there would be no exchange of ideas.  That is one of the disadvantages of living in other Countries.

Eric my friend I will see you in KY this June!

I have no problem with free speech and have no desire to curb it even if I could.

Just a simple "IMO" would be greatly appreciated (when applicable) is all I ask, if you'd be so good. 

Looking forward to seeing you in Louisville!

[Cape Cod Fleetwood]

America is great because among many benefits you can write your opinion down as many times as you want under the first amendment of the constitution. 

NOT IF YOU'RE ON FACEBOOK! says the girl doing 7 days in Facebook jail sentenced by the Thought Police. Sorry, off topic.

\m/
Laurie