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1960 carter carb

Started by 60eldo, February 12, 2019, 03:05:15 PM

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60eldo

  Im trying to adjust the big air screw at the front of the carb and nothing is happening. Even all the way in no change. What could the problem be.
Jon. Klu

INTMD8

Just a few ideas would be, stuck on choke, vacuum leak, or trans/gas pedal linkage holding the throttle open.

I would make sure it's off choke and blades are closing all the way.  Then check for vacuum leaks.

60eldo

  Thanks I will try that now. I know the choke is off, but will get back shortly and tell u what I found.
Jon. Klu

Jon S

It should make a louder sucking sound as it is turned out. I agree, the throttle plates are probably not fully closed.
Jon

1958 Cadillac Sedan De Ville
1973 Lincoln Continental Coupe
1981 Corvette
2004 Mustang GT

60eldo

#4
OK,,,so the car was running for about 20 min then just shut off. So I started her right up and again it shut off after about 1 min. So I new it was either gas, the coil, or the condenser. I happen to have a spare coil so why not try that. When I took the old coil off it was very hot, so I thought ok this has got to be it. Now its fine, it was the coil so back to square one. Yes the plates were open cause I didnt turn out the idle screw. Who was the idiot that put that screw there, the only way to adjust your idle is to shut the car off and pull back the throttle linkage. Anyway vacume is 18, cars running and now the air screw is working,,,thanks boys. BTW idle speed in park 600?  in drive 450RPMS
Jon. Klu

Bobby B

Quote from: 60eldo on February 12, 2019, 04:48:04 PM
BTW idle speed in park 600?  in drive 450RPMS

Just find the "Sweet Spot" and leave it be......
                                          Bobby
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

fishnjim

Since it's running,
not to cause a ruckus, but it raises an issue, I'm curious the vacuum idle type is the right carb for this motor?
If it has an idle screw on linkage, there's no need for the vacuum idle, it's redundant.   Set the fuel screws.   So air screw should not have "worked", if the throttle plates were open.
They(AFB) were changed some time in there, my '58 has it with no idle screw, '59 & '60 motors were redesigned, carbs changed, and I know mid-60s it was completely gone.   
I'll check the carb numbers to check it out.   After many years parts can get mixed, so I'm just curious, if a real problem or not.

60eldo

#7
Yes I find it strange too. Ill take some pics. Is this the right carb for this car? The idle screw on the linkage also controls the choke. Pic #3 is the fast idle screw, then in #4 you will see where it is.
Jon. Klu

35-709

What I am seeing is the fast idle screw that only comes into play when the choke is on (closed) or partially so.  That screw has nothing to do (or shouldn't) with the normal, engine warm, choke fully open, idle speed adjustment --- that is what the center "idle screw" is for.  The bottom picture correctly shows that the fast idle screw is not in play at all when the choke is open (engine warm).
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

60eldo

#9
  So, when my car is hot and idling right now, if you look at that 4th pic, the screw is still on that last bar on the tab. And the choke plate butterfly is completely open. How can I adjust this, in the 4th pic theres a big round screw, can that be loosend and I can turn that little plate clockwise?
Jon. Klu

Daryl Chesterman

#10
Maybe I am wrong, but from what I am seeing in your 2nd picture, the choke butterfly is not in the completely open position, and that is why your fast idle screw is still on the lower step of the fast idle cam.  When the engine is completely warmed up, the choke butterfly should be completely vertical--you should not be able to pull the top of the butterfly toward the front of the car.  If that picture was taken when the motor was completely warmed up, the choke thermostat housing needs to be adjusted until the butterfly is completely open.  Then, after the engine has cooled off completely, by stepping on the throttle, or manually actuating the throttle rod, the choke butterfly should completely close.  If this doesn't happen, the choke bimetal thermostat spring needs to be replaced with the correct one for that model number of carburetor.

Edit about replacing the thermostat coil:  This is assuming that the adjustments for the choke piston is correct, according to the specifications for your carburetor number, and assuming that the fast idle actuating rod adjustment is made according to specs for your carb.  In the 2nd picture, the rod that goes from the fast idle cam up to the choke butterfly actuator arm appears to me to be improperly bent--doesn't look like "factory" or "rebuilder" bends.  I would check these adjustments, also

I am working on a 59 Deville, and it uses the Carter AFB that looks just like yours.  Mine is not the original carburetor for that year and engine; someone has replaced the original with one from a newer model car.  Daytona Parts rebuilt mine, and the choke setting was set too rich, and the butterfly did not completely open after the engine was warmed up, so I had to set the choke thermostat a little bit leaner.  My thermostat cover does not have the groove in the outer circumference of the housing, that is used for the factory choke setting, so I am assuming that Daytona just set it so that the choke butterfly would close when the throttle was actuated, and that setting was just a little bit too rich.

That big round screw in the 4th picture is just a shouldered screw that is the pivot for the fast idle cam.

Daryl Chesterman

35-709

"Maybe I am wrong, but from what I am seeing in your 2nd picture, the choke butterfly is not in the completely open position, and that is why your fast idle screw is still on the lower step of the fast idle cam.  When the engine is completely warmed up, the choke butterfly should be completely vertical--you should not be able to pull the top of the butterfly toward the front of the car.  If that picture was taken when the motor was completely warmed up, the choke thermostat housing needs to be adjusted until the butterfly is completely open."

Not wrong --- absolutely correct.  That choke is not fully opening, and you cannot loosen that pivot screw to adjust "that little plate" (fast idle cam), the cam's position is fixed --- choke adjustment is needed as Daryl pointed out.

You'll never be able to adjust the idle speed with the center idle screw as long as the choke fast idle is in play.
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

60eldo

#12
  I apreciciate all your guys help. So what I now did was with car not running opened the butterfly all the way by hand and the screw was still on that flange, so I grinded down that tab with my dremal , I know its not right but now it works properly, and thats all I want, shes just a driver. I think there must be some way to bend some of those 3in rods but I dont want to get into that.
Jon. Klu

papas52cad

....Just jumping in here, as I just had my carter AFB rebuilt by Daytona, very nice work indeed, speaking to the “what is the correct carb for a given engine” I have a 1960 vintage 390 in my 52; how does one check if you have a matching and corresponding carb for their engine..
What do I look for on my AFB to check...not that it really matters as mine works well..it’s more for curiosity.
Thanks for any info
Peter
1952 Fleetwood

60eldo

   Look up    thecarberatershop.com,,,,,,It shows all year cads and carbs they came with, and Im sure theres others
Jon. Klu

fishnjim

I'm showing the 2951 & 2 as correct for '60, but not before or beyond.
The vacuum idle disappears, as far as I can tell, in all, circa '62 lit.  So must be gone '61.  All these models have the exhaust passing through the intake manifold to prevent "icing".   But that's a design misapplication mostly and was eliminated going forward.

The only 2951/2 "idle" screw on parts list is for the fast idle.   That sets the throttle cam position to warm up the choke, until it drops off.   You have to preset linkage with the foot petal, depress once.   Most don't know this and pump the pedal to start.
One can google "AFB tuning manual" and get the original procedure for these models.  Rebuild manuals also on line.   
I surmise the 2952 is a high flow version of the 2862 to feed the 390 as it has a different air horn.   
I found two rebuilders that bench and test on an engine B4 ship, but slightly more $>300.  I think it's worth it.   Just search for carb rebuilders.
Lots of carb problems on here, so area of interest/learning, park walk for an old guy, spoiled by FI.

papas52cad

Thank you
Mine is a EG9 ( whatever that stands for) 2815S...so maybe from a 1959 390...
Daytona did mine for $400 total including a new electric choke and shipping and new metal ship gasket...I’ll have to look for that tuning manual...
Interesting point about the initial start up, Daytona said to press pedal once..and turn on, starts much better now with electric choke in place, then as it warms, hit the gas pedal once again and then a third time to bring down to warm engine idle RPMs...
I have to have my shop check my tuning and where the idle RPMs are as I have no way to check that.
1952 Fleetwood

35-709

The 2815S is indeed the correct carburetor, if a Carter AFB carb is installed, for a 1959 Cadillac according to http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/  website.
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

papas52cad

Thank you..
I believe my 390 is a1960...but close enough it seems
1952 Fleetwood

60eldo

#19
  WOW, I just check, and Ive got the wrong carb on my car its a Carter 3352S. Thats for a 62 car. Anyway runs good, Ill find the correct one. Let me ask someone who has a 60, my line from the dist. goes to the front of my carb, yet when I disconnect the line at the carb theres no vacume there and engine doesnt react when I pull the hose.
Jon. Klu