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Question on 1979 Seville Generator/Alt connections & other stuff...

Started by Driver8, May 08, 2019, 06:04:25 PM

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Driver8

Hello guys,

Well as I've touched in previous posts... I've been slowly working away to restore & detail things under the hood of my '79 Seville. This again was initiated by a generator fire over a year back and life get's in way of getting other things done sometimes.

Anyhow, with warm weather returning and the Cadillac's (Christine's), 40th b-day this year, I resolved to spend couple hours per day until back safely running again. I had checked in on the blower motor replacement last week and was told that in fact, the wheel housing must come off so thats for later because the car is plastered against the wall on the pass side.

I am posting some photo's to show progress and can put up more later for anyone interested as it has involved keeping/restoring the OEM EFI system, of which Bruce Roe has been an indispensable help in achieving that. That involved everything under the hood, new O-rings, injectors, replacement sensors, etc. as well as new modern Gates Barricade fuel hoses & stainless steel clamps along with a new NOS original Carter frame pump with restored bracket/ filter assembly.

Currently, I am working on the generator which was fully rebuilt by an old school tiny shop here just 10 minutes from my home. from the fire, they sandblasted it and had stored in back a complete rebuild kit so I got to keep my original housing.

In the photo shown, you'l see the Alt connector with a red wire and black wire. In addition you can see to the right, a brownish wire (which i think is black but 40years old), and then the screw/nut connection on the lower left.

I have all the manuals, schematics etc, but not helping me with what i've found. I have done so much heavy/serious work on this car myself, i feel kind of dumb asking for help on this but i want it right and i am not certain. of course, you don't play guessing games with electrical. So... on the plastic connector, does the black wire connect to the loose black/dk brown wire hanging there which comes out of the EFI harness wrapping around over manifold? Next where does the red wire connect to? I have no idea where it goes. I'm trying to remember if I cut that dark colored wire after the fire because the connector was fused to the alternator terminals. My shop manual shows no other reason for that wire coming out of the harness , plus no terminal on it leads to believe that i did cut it off from the alternator.   Now, for the screw/nut terminal connection, am i correct that my new HD charge cable connects on there and runs to the positive side of my new battery's terminal?

In one of the photo's you'll see a marking i drew on. I have never ask/known this so, any of you... what are those slot ports for on both sides of the upper motor? they're actually in the head right, but reveal thru a notched area on the edge of the intake? what purpose do they serve? air/heat vent?

BTW, when complete, I will dig up the old thread from starting the engine detail work and expand on that with info and pictures for everyone.

So below are the pictures then and any help on the alternator connections will allow me to move forward where I can soon do a key turn and test for oil and/or fuel leaks from all the work on the injection and valve cover seals.

Thanks for reading and any help on completing this properly is much appreciated!  Mark Allen~



Mark Allen  CLC # 28250
'79 Cadillac Seville  http://bit.ly/1VEbnNo
'15 Chrysler 300S AWD   https://ibb.co/2Z21vng
'99 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited   http://bit.ly/1VE758Q

bcroe

I have 79 Eldo (1st year design) and 78 Seville (older design)
drawings.  They also differ in that my FWD car has the starter
and battery on the other side compared to RWD.  I think Seville
had a big 12V Junction Block above, my E used the starter
solenoid for this (before I changed it).

Was the fire mostly confined to the alt wiring, or was other stuff
involved?  I expect it has the bat + running straight to the starter,
then a 10 ga brown continues to the JB.  Also from the starter is
an orange 18 ga running to the alt term 2.  I would have run
this wire also from JB to alt.  There is a big red 10 ga from the
JB to the alt stud (bat).  A failed diode might cause a fire here,
happened to me on a 64.  Anyway with that huge alt 10 ga is
not big enough, I would recommend running a 6 gauge welding
cable from the stud back to a 10 ga fusible link, to the JB.  Guess
that means continuing with 6 gauge from the JB to the solenoid. 
I am planning this upgrade for my cars.  Could drop to 8 ga and
12 ga for a smaller alt. 

There is a brown 16 ga coming from the GEN light, grounding
this will turn on the light.  It connects to the alt pin 1.  That
about covers the alt hookup.  Bruce Roe

Driver8

Good morning everyone,

Bruce, thank you for taking a moment to help out.

To answer your question and clarify on the fire... it was fortunately extremely isolated. The real fire was inside of the alternator. The large charge cable that on a '79 runs on top across the core support got completely burned up and my battery would no longer hold a charge. The OEM 2 prong connector on the alternator heated up and was fused to the terminals. All other wires/cables involved with alternator or battery are all fine w/no damage.

So I bought, as shown in photo's, a new HD 6GA charge cable w/correct Dorman flex conduit to match original setup but with a much heavier gauge wire/cable as I believe you indicated. It's like when I do wiring in the house, I often use 12GA where 14GA is known to be more than enough.

Now last evening I dug through some things I had put away for the Cadillac and look what I ran across that I forgot I had: see pics below  --->
so based on what you indicated in your reply and what I see in my diagram, it verifies that the dark brown wire coming out of the EFI harness is the 'generator' dash warning light wire.

Next, am I correct that my replacement connector (bought on ebay), which looks more REDish than orange, will jump over and connects together with the 6GA charge cable on the alt. stud connection which then runs to the battery. is that right to put those 2 together on the stud with eye connectors and washer/nut hold down? appears that way in the Cadillac diagram

So essentially, from what I read from you and see in the electrical diagram, and fact that there was no other wire/cable damage, I am only dealing with 3 wires (alt 2-wire connector [hot ORN & gen light BRN] & battery charge cable), to connect up and should then be able to test start the car again for fuel/oil leaks?

Let me know what you think, and I will move forward to test start by Monday or so.   Thanks, Mark Allen

Mark Allen  CLC # 28250
'79 Cadillac Seville  http://bit.ly/1VEbnNo
'15 Chrysler 300S AWD   https://ibb.co/2Z21vng
'99 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited   http://bit.ly/1VE758Q

bcroe

There are several arrangements that might have been used, I would
say get CADILLAC 1979 SEVILLE Electrical Troubleshooting Manual,
there are several on Evil Bay including item number 143099337356
My Seville book is a 78, could be different. 

One possibility is the orange from alt 2 can just be connected directly
to the alt stud, slightly better voltage reg might be connect it to
the JB, one book shows it connected to the starter sol stud. 

The other variation is the red wire from the JB might go directly to
the battery +, or it may go to the starter sol.  If it is OK leave it
alone. 

Or even, 79 might have eliminated the JB and run direct to the
starter solenoid stud.  A bad design, which I undid in my cars.  Bruce