Author Topic: 1970 Deville dual exhaust install question - Update  (Read 921 times)

Offline chrisntam

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1970 Deville dual exhaust install question - Update
« on: May 29, 2019, 02:17:30 PM »
For those of you with '69 & '70 Devilles that put dual exhaust on your cars, did you have to move the rear brake hose?

Just had mine installed and the tailpipe is right by the rubber hose.  Guy says it's the only place that the pipe can go, given the location of the upper rear trailing arm, which I am in agreement with.

If you moved your hose, did you just extend the factory metal line away from the tailpipe and reconnect the rubber line to the newly installed extension?

These last minute installs are making for a stressful pre GN...   ???
« Last Edit: June 05, 2019, 09:35:36 PM by chrisntam »
1970 Deville Convertible 
Dallas, Texas

Offline chrisntam

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Re: 1970 Deville dual exhaust install question
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2019, 08:42:28 AM »
Here are some pics of the brake hose laying next to the exhaust pipe.

I pulled the hose last night, getting a new one made today.  Appears it will be relatively easy to move.  Will need to extend the hard line over to the new location of where I'll put the rubber line.
1970 Deville Convertible 
Dallas, Texas

Offline Roger Zimmermann

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Re: 1970 Deville dual exhaust install question
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2019, 12:38:14 PM »
You will have to relocate somewhat the attaching bracket for the brake hose and bend the brake line. You may need a longer hose; hard to tell from the pictures. I would not drive a car with that present situation!
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
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Online The Tassie Devil(le)

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Re: 1970 Deville dual exhaust install question
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2019, 08:51:54 PM »
From what i can make out in the pictures, it would be a simple task to move/bend/relocate the mounting point for the flexible line.

Can you show a picture showing the whole rear part of the underneath so we can see just how the exhaust runs?

I put Dual Exhausts under a lot of cars, and never have I found it a problem with the factory brake line runs.

Even put Dual System under my '72 Eldo which some people say it is almost impossible.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Offline Scot Minesinger

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Re: 1970 Deville dual exhaust install question
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2019, 01:00:54 AM »
That is all wrong.  I have dual exhausts on my 1970 Cadillac.  Look over on the other side and see how the exhaust over the axle is supported.  I made a duplicate and installed it on the other side so my set up looks factory and works. 

OK, it can be unsaid; only a dummy would let you leave the shop with a rubber break hose against an exhaust pipe.  I'm sure another shop can make it right.  You are not having much luck with mechanics.  There is no excuse.  The exhaust needs to be corrected, not the break line.

I'm planning to drive to KY in two weeks, so you can see how I did mine without trouble.  After a year or two of this type of BS back in 2005, I decided to do all my own mechanical work.
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

Offline bcroe

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1970 Deville dual exhaust install question
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2019, 09:41:42 AM »
Quote from: Scot Minesinger
The exhaust needs to be corrected, not the break line.

After a year or two of this type of BS back in 2005, I decided to do
all my own mechanical work.   

I made that decision about 1975, took me till 1985 to master the
trans rebuild. 

Brake hose against the exhaust is absolutely unexcusable.  I have
had to pull some emergency brake cables over a bit, no brake hoses
involved yet.  Bruce Roe

Offline chrisntam

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Re: 1970 Deville dual exhaust install question
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2019, 09:10:35 PM »
Moving the brake hose appears to be no big deal, I'll tackle it tomorrow.  Plus, I get to use my new flaring tool.

Unfortunately, I don't have a pipe bender, cannot install exhaust nor do I have the time to do it.  I don't have welder or the expertise to weld.  I won't buy an expensive tool to use it once, don't have the space to store them.  It's unlikely I'll ever have to put exhaust on the car for as long as I own it.

I got up under the car and agreed the pipe really had no where else to be run.  The guy said he could get the hose moved, but I told him I'd move the brake line.  My ALC valve at the axle had to be removed as well.

For what it's worth, the brake hose was wrapped with a heat shield for my 2 mile trip home.

I too wasn't happy with it, but from where I stood, I too saw no other place for the pipe to be run.  It wasn't in my plan to have to deal with moving the hose a week prior to me getting on the road with it.

For me, if you modify a car (dual exhaust), there may be things that are in the way.  I was just curious how others addressed it and so far, only Scot has, his position is that there is room to run the pipe without having to move the brake line.  As a side note and I don't think it makes any difference, I installed aftermarket rear trailing arms, but they appear roughly the same size as the factory trailing arms.



1970 Deville Convertible 
Dallas, Texas

Offline Jeff Rose CLC #28373

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Re: 1970 Deville dual exhaust install question
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2019, 09:39:20 PM »
If you don't mind, please allow me to give you a suggestion.
After you move the hard line, may I suggest that you look into blowing it out and/or bleeding it more than normal and bleeding the lines before they get to the cylinder. 
The reason I say this is that those hard lines look a little tired.  I am concerned about pieces of the inner wall breaking off when the line is flexed and debris getting into your wheel cylinders.
Jeff
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1970 Coupe DeVille (Big Red)
1955 Series 62 (Baby Blue)
Dad's new 1979 Coupe DeVille

Offline chrisntam

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Re: 1970 Deville dual exhaust install question
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2019, 10:27:24 PM »
My plan is to attach new brake line to the hard line and carry the new line to the new flex line location.  Actually, the line looks fairly good, considering it's age and the fact that it was a New York car.  I don't plan on moving the hard line, but your point is well taken!!

I'll take more pics and post them when I can.
1970 Deville Convertible 
Dallas, Texas

Offline Scot Minesinger

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Re: 1970 Deville dual exhaust install question
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2019, 01:18:05 AM »
All break lines should be replaced if original, even the metal ones (they rust from inside out).  In-line tube sells the pre-bent break lines, that is what is on my Cadillacs.  Looking forward to seeing you at GN
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

Offline Scot Minesinger

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Re: 1970 Deville dual exhaust install question
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2019, 10:10:26 AM »
Chris and all,

OK, here is a picture.  It is taken from passenger side sliding under car (not jacking it up) with a light. 

I made a duplicate of the driver side exhaust hanger at this point with the high temp orange rubber.  The insulation wrap around top of exhaust is to keep heat from getting into fuel system where lines are about 2" away. 

Emphasis was on keeping a factory look and staying clear of fuel tank with resonator on passenger side.  It was originally a welded hanger like yours when it came back from exhaust shop, but I removed it to make it a factory appearance.  Certainly on your car that hanger could have been way better placed - it is just about in the worst place possible in consideration of the break line.


Bruce,

When I was in high school, college, and early career, working on my daily drivers in the late 1970's and thru the mid 1980's was an economic necessity.  When my career and family became time consuming had to pay for car work and it was not terrible in the 1980's and 1990's.  Now out of necessity for a decade and a half I must work on my own classics.  I buy the strong all inclusive warranty on my daily drivers (buy 3 years old - best value-keep for a decade) now and have the dealer do everything.  However, on my one daily driver a 2007 Ford CVPI I do most of my own work.  I was born in 1960, so in 1976 I was doing my own work on cars too. 
« Last Edit: June 01, 2019, 11:28:59 AM by Scot Minesinger »
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

Offline Scot Minesinger

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Re: 1970 Deville dual exhaust install question
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2019, 08:32:27 AM »
bump - Chris, check out the picture
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

Offline chrisntam

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Re: 1970 Deville dual exhaust install question
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2019, 10:55:03 PM »
Thanks for the pic Scot, based on yours, it's certainly possible to avoid the brake line.  Yours ended up close to the fuel line, mine is well clear of those.  Your routing appears easier than mine - wrapping the tail pipe vs. moving the brake line.

I'm still in the middle of moving the line,  I've got the rubber line location moved and mounted but the challenge for me is bending the 1/4" steel line and getting it the exact correct length and getting each end in the exact location where they need to live.  I'll continue working at it tomorrow.

The steel line has to make a sharp 90 right at the nut and my tubing bender won't do that.  The place that made my rubber line can make that bend - they insert a cable in the line then gently make the bend.  The inserted cable keeps the tubing from kinking.  They open tomorrow @ 8 am.

1970 Deville Convertible 
Dallas, Texas

Offline Scot Minesinger

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Re: 1970 Deville dual exhaust install question
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2019, 08:33:54 AM »
Remember what a lot of old school guys say:  90% of my carb. problems are electrical", meaning that the real issue is ignition.  I had an issue which seemed like vapor lock, but it was my ignition system.  In trying to "fix" my vapor lock, I wrapped the exhaust just to be sure.  It has a good two inches clear and it may not need to be done at all.  After wrapping it made no difference, but it would not hurt so I left it.  The picture just shows that it is possible to install dual exhaust.  Dual exhaust was optional on the Olds 98 (and probably the Electra too), so it is not unlikely that it could work for Cadillac too.
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

Offline chrisntam

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Re: 1970 Deville dual exhaust install question - Update
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2019, 09:44:11 PM »
Got the line installed, bled the brakes, all appears well.  Back to the exhaust shop on Thursday to get the tailpipe hanger reconnected.

Hint:  When bending and flaring lines, it is very important that you put the nut on first prior to doing your flare.  You wouldn't believe the words uttered after I spent a fair amount of time getting the line to where it needed to be.   ::)

Hint 2:  If you're going to do any flaring, buy the Eastwood flaring tool.   8)
1970 Deville Convertible 
Dallas, Texas

Online The Tassie Devil(le)

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Re: 1970 Deville dual exhaust install question - Update
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2019, 09:57:19 PM »
.....Hint:  When bending and flaring lines, it is very important that you put the nut on first prior to doing your flare.  You wouldn't believe the words uttered after I spent a fair amount of time getting the line to where it needed to be.   ::)
Hint 2:  If you're going to do any flaring, buy the Eastwood flaring tool.   
Nicely done.

Bruce. >:D

PS.   And you won't be the first one to do that, or the last. ;)
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Offline Roger Zimmermann

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Re: 1970 Deville dual exhaust install question - Update
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2019, 02:40:26 AM »
PS.   And you won't be the first one to do that, or the last. ;)
I did that probably too!
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Offline Tokyo635

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  • Name: matthew scarborough
Re: 1970 Deville dual exhaust install question - Update
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2019, 05:39:38 PM »
wouldnt you know my 1970 cadillac deville convertible that was once my fathers may he RIP, who put the dual exhaust on the car did not relocate the brake line and now has a hole in it keep in mind this was done yearsss ago back in 1999  now here it is 2019 i still have this car and i am searching for the hose to replace that one and i think ill be doing the same as you did to your cadillac there thanks for the tip wish i knew this before it got to the point of busting and what shop made your line as i cannot ind it anywere online and i live in rural oklhoma and the shops here i do not trust enough to make a brake line for the car that i drive with my kids at times 

Offline bcroe

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Re: 1970 Deville dual exhaust install question - Update
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2019, 08:26:53 PM »
Quote from: Tokyo635
I cannot find it anywere online and i live in rural Oklhoma and the shops here I do not trust enough to make a brake line for the car that i drive with my kids at times   

Using the latest copper-nickel alloy tubing and fittings (Amazon) it
is much easier to make corrosion resistant metal lines.  The double
flare is the challenge, adapters will do it, but the $400 hydraulic
flaring tool (I decided I must buy) makes it easy.  Really they will
either leak right away, or never.   A rear line is not nearly so critical
for a dual circuit system.  In fact, any car of mine that old would
have just about 100% of the lines replaced for safety, along with
hoses, cylinders, and calipers.  Bruce Roe

Offline chrisntam

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Re: 1970 Deville dual exhaust install question - Update
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2019, 09:12:37 PM »
That brake flaring tool can be had at Eastwood for $200.  Get the reamer ($33) and a good tubing cutter.  If you access their site for the first time, you can get a $20 discount, iirc.   I've never flared a line prior to this one and as Bruce said, if it doesn't leak right away, it won't.  Mine didn't leak at all.

I sent you a link to factory replacement hoses in the other thread.

And that's one helluva run-on sentence.  Try punctuation and paragraphs, it's easier for all to read.   ;)
1970 Deville Convertible 
Dallas, Texas

 

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