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Correct Tires for 1967 Eldorado

Started by Flyer, June 22, 2019, 08:16:11 AM

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Flyer

I hesitate to bring up this subject as it has been beat to death over the years but after taking a hit at Grand Nationals two years in a row I really need some help. The standard tire for a 1967 Eldorado is the 9.00 x 15 bias ply blackwall. Optional 9.00 x 15 dual whitewalls were available; the rim WW is 5/8 inch and the outer WW is 3/16 inch. There were (I Think) four tire companies who supplied GM:  Goodyear, Goodrich, Uniroyal (US Royal)  and Firestone. I have tried to locate either the standard or optional tires with no success. I contacted Diamond Back (supplies only radial tires), Coker, Lucas, Tire Rack, and Interco Tire and none of these companies carry nor do they know of any company that produces the exact correct tire. Goodrich has a 9.00 x 15 bias ply in a dual whitewall that has two  3/8 inch WW design and a 1 inch whitewall. No one makes a 9.00 x 15 bias ply blackwall. My question is: Does anyone know where I can purchase the correct tires for my car? If the exact correct tire is no longer manufactured is it possible to get the judging rules changed to allow another type tire?  Thanks for any advise and help you can offer. Hugh Dean

D.Smith

#1
Nobody makes the correct dual stripe in a bias ply that I know of. 

I suppose you could buy the Goodrich 9.00 x 15 bias ply whitewalls and have them mounted black wall out.

Personally I'd rather have the correct stripes on the Diamondback radials as I think black walls will look odd.

Keep in mind the dual stripes they sell ready to ship are of the wrong dual strip width.  If you really want to be correct you will need to give diamondback the exact measurements as the 67-70 Cadillac dual stripes are narrower than the ones they stock and sell.   I took the spare out of my 68 and took measurements and photos to send them to reproduce the exact size stripes.


Matt CLC#18621

Question?

If you have the correct white wall stripes, does one lose judging points if their tyres are radials?

What about Cadillacs’ dressed in Vogue Tyres, etc.?

Regards,

Matt
CLC#18621

76eldo

Try Coker for dual stripe bias ply.

Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

D.Smith

Quote from: 76eldo on June 22, 2019, 12:18:14 PM
Try Coker for dual stripe bias ply.

The Coker ones are wrong.  They have them for the 1971-74 Cadillacs.   The stripes are reversed.

Dan LeBlanc

#5
Quote from: Matt CLC#18621 on June 22, 2019, 12:01:44 PM
Question?

If you have the correct white wall stripes, does one lose judging points if their tyres are radials?

What about Cadillacs’ dressed in Vogue Tyres, etc.?

Regards,

Matt
CLC#18621

Yes, there is a deduction because the car was originally equipped with bias ply tires.  There is a deduction for radials in all classes above touring class.  That change was just made for this year to allow radial tires on cars originally equipped with bias ply tires in touring class with no deduction.

Vogue tires would be a deduction also.

The judging standard is as delivered to the dealer from Cadillac Motor Car Division.  To my knowledge, cars were not delivered to the dealer with Vogue tires.  These could have been delivered to the first customer as an aftermarket accessory upsell, so, theoretically, a first owner could have had vogues when the car was new.  But, since these were not a genuine Cadillac accessory, there is a deduction.
Dan LeBlanc
1977 Lincoln Continental Town Car

Scot Minesinger

Even if you get bias ply with correct white wall pattern it remains a deduction (not in touring) because it was not the L78 and the black lettering is wrong. 

For us 1965 thru 1971 Cadillac owners there is no correct tire that I'm aware of in bias ply.  And again, there is no way I'm driving thru the wind and rain over the mountains on Rt 64 at 75 mph from VA to KY (GN 2019) on bias ply tires made for show cars.  One club member bought the "Lester" tire company molds (not sure if he bought the entire company or not?) to get the correct tires for his 1964 series 75 Caddy.  I'm unwilling to search out and buy an entire tire company or their molds just to get the right tires on my 1970 Cadillac.

One of my friends owned a 1966 Olds Tornado purchased new plus he enjoyed a heavy foot (regreted trading it for a 1972 Toronado).  Bias ply tires lasted only 6k miles in front and he replaced them with radials and he got 40k miles out of them.  The 1967 Cadillac Eldorado was similar to the Toronado and so tire life was probably about the same back in the day and if you drover super gently maybe you got 20k or so out of the front tires, which is a lifetime to a collector.
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

D.Smith

Agreed.  Take the deduction and get radials made in the correct stripes.  Your car will at least look right even if you still take the deduction.   If everyone is getting the deduction then it at least levels the playing field.

If you are loosing an award just because of the tires then so is the other guy.  You have to at least tie in points.  Otherwise see if there are other areas where you can sort out things to eliminate deductions.

cadillacmike68

Quote from: Dan LeBlanc on June 24, 2019, 08:08:20 AM
Yes, there is a deduction because the car was originally equipped with bias ply tires.  There is a deduction for radials in all classes above touring class.  That change was just made for this year to allow radial tires on cars originally equipped with bias ply tires in touring class with no deduction.

Vogue tires would be a deduction also.

The judging standard is as delivered to the dealer from Cadillac Motor Car Division.  To my knowledge, cars were not delivered to the dealer with Vogue tires.  These could have been delivered to the first customer as an aftermarket accessory upsell, so, theoretically, a first owner could have had vogues when the car was new.  But, since these were not a genuine Cadillac accessory, there is a deduction.

When did the judging change from "as delivered to the first retail customer"? Such a change would wipe out all the 1981-83 ElDorado convertible conversions that dealers had done in those years.
Regards,
"Cadillac" Mike

Dan LeBlanc

Quote from: cadillacmike68 on June 24, 2019, 02:37:04 PM
When did the judging change from "as delivered to the first retail customer"? Such a change would wipe out all the 1981-83 ElDorado convertible conversions that dealers had done in those years.

It was in the first set of revisions to the judging rules from Bill Anderson.  It has been discussed on the forum already.
Dan LeBlanc
1977 Lincoln Continental Town Car

wrench

So is the basis of the points deduction 4 tires or does it include the spare?

What I am saying is you could have 4 modern replacements and  the spare could be original.

Forgive me, I usually don’t pay attention to judging standards.
1951 Series 62 Sedan
1969 Eldorado
1970 Eldorado (Triple Black w/power roof)
1958 Apache 3/4 ton 4x4
2005 F250
2014 FLHP
2014 SRX

76eldo

On this type of situation, where you cannot buy the correct tire for the car which would be the double stripe bias ply tire, what are you supposed to do?

It would really be great if they waived the deduction for a radial as long as the whitewall derail is correct.  The benefit to using a radial tire on these cars is just as beneficial as a dual master cylinder on cars that came with a single pot master and there is no deduction for that.

Just my opinion

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

airdefenz

Hi David Smith - I saw your post and I have contacted Diamondback to get the exact tires you obtained for your 68. Daimondback asked me if you have the measurements so they can find your prior order?

scotth3886

Just getting ready to order tires so I'll be correct by the time Hershey Fall Nationals rolls around.

Is Diamondback correct for 66 with their auburn series in triple white?

DeVille68

#14
I got my tires from diamond back with the help of David, seven years ago.
I mentioned this in my restoration blog somewhere. Here are the details:

Original Cadillac 68 double white wall with these dimensions:

Distance from rim:   3/4''
First White Wall:      18/32''
Black Stripe:             13/32''
Second White Wall: 6/32''

Diamond back was (seven years back) not able to recreate the strips exactly, as you can see. But good enough. In Europe and at every GN I have been so far, I have never seen anyone with a 68 which had tires that were even close to correct. (radial tires! Some had nos - I would not want to drive those around..)

Best regards,
Nicolas
1968 Cadillac DeVille Convertible (silver pine green)

D.Smith

Quote from: DeVille68 on June 19, 2021, 02:05:45 PM
I got my tires from diamond back with the help of David, seven years ago.
Diamond back was (seven years back) not able to recreate the strips exactly, as you can see. But good enough 
Nicolas

Hi Nicolas!   Sorry to hear that they were not able to duplicate them exactly.    I sold my 68 Eldorado to a friend who just ordered another set for his 67 Eldorado.   So they can get it right.  The measurements must have been off when they made your set.     But I still like the ones you received.  Your car looks great. 

My buddy Jim just put these on his 67 Eldorado.   New on the car and a photo of the old spare he used for measurements.

DeVille68

Hi David,

Yeah, well, I remember the guy even called me and said he had problems setting the machine up to make the small second white stripe. He said he could only so and so many inches. It arrived like he said, but correct. Must have been another guy making my tires from the one that did the other tires.

Well, I also need another set I guess, its been 7 years now, not sure how long I should keep driving them. Miles are negligible, but age..?

Maybe we could do a group ordering of 67&68 tires?

Best regards,
Nicoals
1968 Cadillac DeVille Convertible (silver pine green)

cadillacmike68

#17
Quote from: Scot Minesinger on June 24, 2019, 09:12:15 AM
Even if you get bias ply with correct white wall pattern it remains a deduction (not in touring) because it was not the L78 and the black lettering is wrong. 

For us 1965 thru 1971 Cadillac owners there is no correct tire that I'm aware of in bias ply.  And again, there is no way I'm driving thru the wind and rain over the mountains on Rt 64 at 75 mph from VA to KY (GN 2019) on bias ply tires made for show cars.  One club member bought the "Lester" tire company molds (not sure if he bought the entire company or not?) to get the correct tires for his 1964 series 75 Caddy.  I'm unwilling to search out and buy an entire tire company or their molds just to get the right tires on my 1970 Cadillac.

One of my friends owned a 1966 Olds Tornado purchased new plus he enjoyed a heavy foot (regreted trading it for a 1972 Toronado).  Bias ply tires lasted only 6k miles in front and he replaced them with radials and he got 40k miles out of them.  The 1967 Cadillac Eldorado was similar to the Toronado and so tire life was probably about the same back in the day and if you drover super gently maybe you got 20k or so out of the front tires, which is a lifetime to a collector.

In 1967, 1968, & 1969 the tire sizes were Still the width and rim diameter with the series profile not stated. for everything except the Fleetwood 75s, this was 9.00-15 Load range B (9 inch cross section width (228.6mm), 15 inch rim (and the series was 80 if I remember, but it was never listed). Fleetwood 75 used 8.20-15 Load Range D ( probably an 85  or 90 series profile). In 1969 the ElDorado called for 8.85-15 (I have no idea why).

The alphanumeric sizing, which by the way omits the cross section width, was started in 1970, but the Fleetwood 75s Still called for 8.20-15 Load range D.

I'm still running 235-75-R15 T rated. When these wear out, I Might get a set of diamondbacks like the ones Laurie has.
Regards,
"Cadillac" Mike

Scot Minesinger

Ideally a set of tires wins the show and are a great asset to the driving pleasure.  You just cannot buy a show winning set of bias ply dual striped tires to avoid suffering a point deduction.  Might as well buy the radial with the correct dual stripe tires from Diamond back.  Even though their standard dual stripe for 1967-70 Cadillac where the wider stripe is too wide, to me it looks super nice, so I use those on my 1970 Cadillacs.

Enjoy your Cadillac!
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

cadillacmike68

Scot, You have them on your 1970 too? I actually like the slightly wider wide stripe. It's just that the 1996 Fleetwood is in more dire need of tires at the moment, and those are Real hard to find in WSW.

And I just got a $1100 wallop for tires for one of the CTSs.
Regards,
"Cadillac" Mike