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1973 Coupe w/ 472 oil capacity??

Started by cadillac73, June 27, 2019, 04:57:00 PM

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cadillac73

Hello all. Just had the 472 rebuilt. I had to replace the oil dipstick tube but still using the original dipstick. The tube came off another 472. Anyway I just changed the oil and filter, and have so far dumped 7 quarts in, and it is still saying I am a quart low. I have run it a little bit to make sure the filter is full. Another site I looked at said 7.5 - 8 is the capacity, but the owners manual says 5. I don’t want to overfill, obviously. Can anyone tell me if this is normal? I did not have the engine modified in any way. Thanks.
Catherine Smith "Cat"
Pittston, ME  USA

1973 Coupe deVille 472
"Solid Gold"

hornetball

5 quarts with oil filter change.  Eldo is 6 quarts.

TJ Hopland

I agree with Mr Price,  5 quarts.    If you are sure you put 7 in I would just take 2 out.   

Don't the Cadillac sticks from this era say the capacity on them so this should say 4 quarts?   Any chance the original stick got lost and what you have now is a replacement?   Seems like we had a thread not that long ago where someone posted the length of several 60's and 70's Cad dipsticks. 


How far does the tube stick out of the block?   Maybe they got it in the wrong hole or not pushed in all the way?   There are 2 holes, one is for the Eldo.   I don't remember if the Eldo tube was different or not.   Both cases I think the tube has a bend once its in the pan so maybe its not bent correctly too?   
You will want to go about this carefully because I think even  in the RWD cars the stick and tube get pretty close to the crank.  With the oil pan off no problem but with the pan on you have to be careful how you go about things.  You may be able to trim down the tube from the outside using a compact tubing cutter but you would have to make sure you had the room to do that and that the stick isn't going to hit the crank when its pushed in deeper.   That would get your full mark correct assuming you got a fresh filter and 5 new quarts in but may not be accurate for how low it is because it may not be at the correct angle in the pan.
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Big Fins

You have your answer in the 2 posts above.
Current:
1976 Eldorado Convertible in Crystal Blue FireMist with white interior and top. (Misty Blue)
1969 Fleetwood Brougham in Chalice Gold FireMist with matching interior and top. (The Old Man) SOLD!

Past and much missed:
1977 Brougham de Elegance
1976 Eldorado Convertible
1972 Fleetwood Brougham
1971 Sedan de Ville
1970 de Ville Convertible
1969 Sedan de Ville
1959 Sedan deVille

"Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364

What you are describing is a tube installed upside down. As suggested drain the pie and change the filter. Put in 5 quarts run the motor to circulate the oil well. Then trim the “top” of the tube enough to “adjust” the full Mari.
Greg Surfas
Cadillac Kid-Greg Surfas
Director Modified Chapter CLC
CLC #15364
66 Coupe deVille (now gone to the UK)
72 Eldo Cpe  (now cruising the sands in Quatar)
73 Coupe deVille
75 Coupe deElegance
76 Coupe deVille
79 Coupe de ville with "Paris" (pick up) option and 472 motor
514 inch motor now in '73-

cadillac73

Thanks everyone. I had a feeling it was something wrong with the tube installation, because it is the original stick.

Is there an easy way to reinstall the tube, or should I just leave it the way it is and put a notch on the stick to show the “new” full?
Catherine Smith "Cat"
Pittston, ME  USA

1973 Coupe deVille 472
"Solid Gold"

Scot Minesinger

You can r-install the tube, but the exhaust manifold will need to be removed.  Since engine was just rebuilt should not be too bad. 

Another fix which I did and is much easier is to extend the stick further down into the tube, it is folded up and will increase in length.  After 5 quarts are installed with filter and run until hot, use dip stick and record length from cap on stick to full oil level (let's say it is 11 inches down).  Pull on the stick with vice grips until full mark is 11 inches down (or whatever the measurement was).

The entity that worked on your Cadillac and returned the car to you with the incorrect install should fix it.  There is just no excuse for that kind of sloppiness.   
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

"Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364

IF the tube was installed and bent to clear the rotating parts then you CANNOT remove the tube without dropping the pan and straightening out the tube first.
Greg Surfas
Cadillac Kid-Greg Surfas
Director Modified Chapter CLC
CLC #15364
66 Coupe deVille (now gone to the UK)
72 Eldo Cpe  (now cruising the sands in Quatar)
73 Coupe deVille
75 Coupe deElegance
76 Coupe deVille
79 Coupe de ville with "Paris" (pick up) option and 472 motor
514 inch motor now in '73-

cadillacmike68

Quote from: Scot Minesinger on June 27, 2019, 07:36:41 PM
You can r-install the tube, but the exhaust manifold will need to be removed.  Since engine was just rebuilt should not be too bad. 

Another fix which I did and is much easier is to extend the stick further down into the tube, it is folded up and will increase in length.  After 5 quarts are installed with filter and run until hot, use dip stick and record length from cap on stick to full oil level (let's say it is 11 inches down).  Pull on the stick with vice grips until full mark is 11 inches down (or whatever the measurement was).

The entity that worked on your Cadillac and returned the car to you with the incorrect install should fix it.  There is just no excuse for that kind of sloppiness.   

Agreed on the last part. When my engine was recently rebuilt they had the foresight to check the tube and stick and noticed it was in wrong. They corrected it while the engine was still on the stand.

Regards,
"Cadillac" Mike

35-709

#9
The procedure for properly installing and bending the dipstick tube, once you drop the pan and remove it, is in the '73 Shop Manual on Page 6-122 --- Paragraph 126.  Note that the stop ring in the correct tube that is part of the tube's make-up is to go on the outside of the block so the tube is inserted from the outside in and THEN bent (as per the shop manual) while the oil pan is off.  There is also a picture of the installation on Page 6-96.  Seems to me I remember sending you a brand new, still unbent, never installed tube a while back.

It is my understanding that you have the shop manual, Catherine, and it bothers me greatly to see the problems you have had over time that have mostly been caused by the people working on your car not taking the time or caring enough to use the very reference material you have that would have taken care of the those problems before they ever arose.  You might be just as well off at this point to just mark the stick with the "new" full mark or shorten the tube on the outside until your stick reads full with 5 quarts added (with filter).

Geoff N.
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373

Some here may or may not remember that I have certainly had issues after my rebuild. I have the same problem  I want to just cut the tip off the tube but after all the problems I have had I dont want to make a new one by doing something to make the stick hit the crank. So I just know where full is on the stick and go from there. It isn't right, I know it isn't right, But sometimes in life you need to just pick your battles.
Jeff
Jeff Rosansky
CLC #28373
1970 Coupe DeVille (Big Red)
1955 Series 62 (Baby Blue)
Dad's new 1979 Coupe DeVille

cadillac73

Quote from: 35-709 on June 27, 2019, 09:53:22 PM
Seems to me I remember sending you a brand new, still unbent, never installed tube a while back.

Yes, Geoff, you did.  And I told the guy what you told me about bending the tube.  Apparently he didn't listen.

I am going to call him today.  What bothers me the most is that I have been driving this thing with way too much oil in it, because more than 5 quarts came out the other day when I changed it. 

What kind of damage might this have caused???

I can't seem to catch a break with this car and I am so disheartened, I wanna cry.
Catherine Smith "Cat"
Pittston, ME  USA

1973 Coupe deVille 472
"Solid Gold"

hornetball

#12
Quote from: cadillac73 on June 28, 2019, 08:49:40 AMAnd I told the guy what you told me about bending the tube.  Apparently he didn't listen.

I am going to call him today.  What bothers me the most is that I have been driving this thing with way too much oil in it, because more than 5 quarts came out the other day when I changed it. 

What kind of damage might this have caused???

Unfortunately, mechanics not following written procedures is more the rule than the exception.  After all, it takes time to read the materials and time is money -- unless they get a bring-back (most people don't stick up for themselves).  Add to that, engine installations are usually done by a separate business, so someone insisting on a bring-back will be incurring double installation costs and hassle.  Not sure what else you could have done besides standing right next to them as they did the work.  With my race cars, I've been at it long enough that I know who I can trust.  Larger shops tend to be worse because you are relying on employees that are always in flux.  My goto machine shop is a solo operator -- you can usually count on the quality when it is an individual craftsman.  Those are hard to find though.

The problem with overfilling is that the crankshaft churns and aerates the oil.  Fortunately, we keep RPMs on our Caddies low as we cruise around.    So, I wouldn't expect that you would have done a great deal of damage.  It's easy enough to remark the dipstick -- but if you don't change your own oil you may want to bight the bullet and get it fixed despite the hassle.

cadillac73

Thank you, that makes me feel a little better.  I do change my own oil, and this is the first oil change I have done since the rebuild. I only drove it maybe 500 miles, and only on the highway once for about 30-45 minutes. The oil that came out of it was not frothy, in fact it was still almost clear, there was just too much.

Unfortunately I have not been in Maine long enough to know who to trust and who not to.  I'm going to call the guy who rebuilt it (he is a solo mechanic with his own shop), but now I have no faith in him, and wonder what else he might have done wrong. He certainly won't be touching it again.

Catherine Smith "Cat"
Pittston, ME  USA

1973 Coupe deVille 472
"Solid Gold"

hornetball

Quote from: cadillac73 on June 28, 2019, 09:46:23 AMI'm going to call the guy who rebuilt it (he is a solo mechanic with his own shop)

Did he also do the engine pull/install?  That would be the best case scenario for you.  Fortunately, with a DeVille, it is possible to drop the oil pan without pulling the engine (can't do that on an Eldo).

cadillac73

No, he had another shop pull and install.  He just rebuilt it.
Catherine Smith "Cat"
Pittston, ME  USA

1973 Coupe deVille 472
"Solid Gold"

Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373

Quote from: cadillac73 on June 28, 2019, 08:49:40 AM
I can't seem to catch a break with this car and I am so disheartened, I wanna cry.
Believe me, I understand. Just do a search under me and you will see what I mean.  I have been, and still am, there myself.
But, amidst all the frustration, I still feel good when I walk out of work and see it there waiting for me.
It gets better.
Jeff
Jeff Rosansky
CLC #28373
1970 Coupe DeVille (Big Red)
1955 Series 62 (Baby Blue)
Dad's new 1979 Coupe DeVille

35-709

#17
Quote from: "Cadillac Kid"  Greg Surfas 15364 on June 27, 2019, 06:31:17 PM
What you are describing is a tube installed upside down. As suggested drain the pie and change the filter. Put in 5 quarts run the motor to circulate the oil well. Then trim the “top” of the tube enough to “adjust” the full Mari.
Greg Surfas
Not having seen the tube installation, I am thinking Greg is right.  Installing it upside down may even have negated the necessity to bend the tube after installation, I don't know.  But it sure would throw off the accuracy of the dipstick by a large margin.  Of course, to do it properly the pan still has to come off.  Can you post a picture of the tube installation as it is now on the outside?
 
Best of luck with it, Catherine, your car and the problems your seemingly inept service people create for you cross my mind every so often and I find myself wondering how you are getting along.  Please keep us posted about the outcome.
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

cadillac73

I appreciate that, Jeff, and I'm sorry you're having trouble too.  I've owned this car for 31 years...she was my first car, and I love her more than I probably should.  Since the day I bought it, I've dreamed of restoring it and showing it.  I've maintained her, and have done as much of the body and engine work as I can by myself over the years, learning as I go.  But I leave the big stuff, like this rebuild, to the "professionals". 

I have put her in a few shows, as a "restoration in progress", and she has taken 1st, 2nd and 3rd place trophies so far.  So believe me, it makes me ridiculously happy to see her in my garage every day. 

Geoff, thank you for your support and encouragement!  I will try to take a picture of the tube when I get home.
C
Catherine Smith "Cat"
Pittston, ME  USA

1973 Coupe deVille 472
"Solid Gold"

TJ Hopland

Just thinking out loud here....   could be several flaws I'm not thinking of.

If it does turn out that the tube appears to be high what about shoving some say 12 or 14 gauge copper wire down there to see if it hits anything?   Copper should be stiff enough that if there is a bend it should go fairly straight like the stick would once it leaves the tube.   Its also soft enough that if you did it slowly with the engine running and it did hit the crank it should not damage anything.   Just put some marks on the wire compared to the stick so you know how far in its going now then add a few inches.   

I'm thinking this because lets say he does cut the tube and the stick hits something he will be much worse off than just living with it the way it is.       
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason