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SMS

Started by Caddy Wizard, July 17, 2019, 10:07:53 AM

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Caddy Wizard

I know that some folks have expressed frustration at times with certain vendors, including those who provide upholstery fabrics and products.  Perhaps I have been fortunate.  About 10 years ago I ordered a complete set of factory-correct fabrics from SMS for my 1949 Club Coupe.  They arrived quickly, were reasonably priced, and were of great quality.  This summer I ordered several different original type fabrics for the seats of my 1955 Sixty Special (blue V-crest fabric for the field of the seats, navy blue wool broadcloth for the bolsters, light blue wool broadcloth for the back of the front seat, medium blue vinyl for the top of the seat frame, etc).  They shipped them yesterday, about 3 weeks after I ordered them.  I am looking forward to seeing the fabrics and am hopeful that once again it will all work out fine.  They told me that the materials I was ordering were in stock and apparently that was the case.  Like the last time, I will be having a local upholstery shop sew up the upholstery for me.


I am excited about seeing the seats after they are redone.  Sad too, because the interior of my 31,000 mile car is still original. Once I redo these seats, to me it will never be the same (even if it looks nice and more presentable).
Art Gardner


1955 S60 Fleetwood sedan (now under resto -- has been in paint shop since June 2022!)
1955 S62 Coupe (future show car? 2/3 done)
1958 Eldo Seville (2/3 done)

BJM

Art
A matter of perspective since I have seldom - maybe never - had a car with that level of seat quality fabric but I would not do anything to that upholstery if it were my car.  That still looks great although I am sure it shows some wear due to age.

Regarding SMS it must mean a great deal that they have your fabrics and upholstery in stock, as to their ability to provide satisfaction quickly.  If a collector makes an inquiry and they make no commitment to the fabrics/upholstery being in stock, perhaps then it should cause a person to pause.

Caddy Wizard

Quote from: BJM on July 17, 2019, 10:58:05 AM
Art
A matter of perspective since I have seldom - maybe never - had a car with that level of seat quality fabric but I would not do anything to that upholstery if it were my car.  That still looks great although I am sure it shows some wear due to age.



The passenger side of the front seat is nearly perfect, as is the back seat.  Faded, yes (the bolsters were navy blue when new, now are faded to a medium to light blue).  But the driver side of the front seat is absolutely falling apart.  The fabric is tearing badly and the padding is crumbling.  Every time I drive the car there is a new pile of padding on the floor and much of it on the seat.  Sadly, it is time to redo the front seat.  Either that or stop driving the car.  And since I am redoing the front seat, the bolsters will be dark blue again.  The light blue (faded) bolsters on the rear seat will look bad next to the front seat, so the rear seats are being redone too.

I hate to do it.  But it is either that or stop using the car.  I enjoy driving it too much to stop driving it...
Art Gardner


1955 S60 Fleetwood sedan (now under resto -- has been in paint shop since June 2022!)
1955 S62 Coupe (future show car? 2/3 done)
1958 Eldo Seville (2/3 done)

59-in-pieces

#3
Art & others,

I agree that nothing looks better than fresh new upholstering.
It is also true that combinations of fabric and leather/vinyl makes it more difficult, than leather alone - just pattern in the leather becomes the test - to match OEM.

However, how often have we seen folks drive their cars with "Horse Blankets" or "Mexican Serapes" over the seats, while finding the just right upholstery or more often waiting to find the money to do the deed.

Drive the car always, even with a "Horse Blanket" for a time - IMHO.

Have fun,
Steve B.

S. Butcher

Caddy Wizard

Quote from: 59-in-pieces on July 17, 2019, 04:11:40 PM
Art & others,

Drive the car always, even with a "Horse Blanket" for a time - IMHO.

Have fun,
Steve B.


As we speak, the car has a big blue printed towel over the driver seat. I drive it as much as I can.  I drove it 1,000 mile roundtrip to the GN last month...
Art Gardner


1955 S60 Fleetwood sedan (now under resto -- has been in paint shop since June 2022!)
1955 S62 Coupe (future show car? 2/3 done)
1958 Eldo Seville (2/3 done)

59-in-pieces

Art,
Gr8 choice, blue - color coordinated.

OH!
Without the towel, I have found it is a good idea to dust off your butt when leaving the car - of all the flaking foam padding.

Have fun,
Steve B.
S. Butcher

BJM

Art
Makes perfect sense. I figured the wear was significant on the drivers side. 

Caddy Wizard

Quote from: BJM on July 18, 2019, 01:37:17 PM
Art
Makes perfect sense. I figured the wear was significant on the drivers side.

The seat wasn't even ripped on the driver side when I got it two years ago with about 28,000 miles.  But I have used the car a lot since then and the 65 year old fabric has wilted under the use.
Art Gardner


1955 S60 Fleetwood sedan (now under resto -- has been in paint shop since June 2022!)
1955 S62 Coupe (future show car? 2/3 done)
1958 Eldo Seville (2/3 done)

Big Fins

My '59 interior was fully intact when I bought it. Two years of getting in and out turned it to yellow dust flying every where when the windows were open. I outfitted it with '70 seating and loved the comfort.
Current:
1976 Eldorado Convertible in Crystal Blue FireMist with white interior and top. (Misty Blue)
1969 Fleetwood Brougham in Chalice Gold FireMist with matching interior and top. (The Old Man) SOLD!

Past and much missed:
1977 Brougham de Elegance
1976 Eldorado Convertible
1972 Fleetwood Brougham
1971 Sedan de Ville
1970 de Ville Convertible
1969 Sedan de Ville
1959 Sedan deVille

Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373

+1 for the towel over the seat.
Jeff
Jeff Rosansky
CLC #28373
1970 Coupe DeVille (Big Red)
1955 Series 62 (Baby Blue)
Dad's new 1979 Coupe DeVille

fishnjim

Art's in the proverbial between rock and hard spot.   But I see nothing wrong with preserving the car, encourage it, if that means putting in new upholstery to enjoy it.   Hey, if had been wrecked or the kids cut or stained the fabric playing 60 years ago, the owner would have had it repaired or replaced.   So like mufflers, some things on a car just have to be replaced periodically, upholstery is just on a longer term schedule.   
The foam pads won't last forever, even new ones.   Even prewar leather with horse hair and cotton batting won't stay factory fresh forever ad requires attention.   Leather can be conditioned, but not revived once ruined either, and vinyl not at all.   You can coat with acrylic, to slow the process.   The foam is polymeric urethane, so "conditioners" won't help it.   Early foam was poorly made compared to today's.   Unfortunately, I made catalyst for foam too, so you can blame me - partially.   
Things "age", even me, otherwise, we wouldn't need UV protection on stuff.   I worked for 3 decades, a long time, making stuff to prevent vinyl from degrading.   It's a bad "plastic", doesn't even process without additives, weathers poorly, but it's what they had and became into mainstream use.
Some dyes last better (colorfast) than others, red and blue not so good.   

David Greenburg

I use a towel on the driver’s seat of my original ‘61 when I’m not going to shows or other special occasions.  The fabric is in very good shape, but i’d like to keep it that way for as long as I can.
David Greenburg
'60 Eldorado Seville
'61 Fleetwood Sixty Special

J. Douglas Bailey

I too got into the habit of brushing off my backside whenever I got out of my '66 Eldorado. The original leather had been spray-dyed at some point and after I drove it for four years it was simply dried out and shredded. I lean toward preservation as Art Gardner knows, but this was getting ridiculous. I shopped around for about three years as the seats got worse. (Okay, mainly the driver's seat got worse, and I don't want to hear about losing weight either - but I drive the heck outta this car - to San Marcos in '18 and Louisville in '19.) .

I called SMS because they matched the carpets and headliner perfectly 15 years ago for my '58. This time, they had the exact perforated and smooth leather materials for this '66, and the patterns to stick it all together. That is amazing, since Cadillac only built 2250 Eldo convertibles and allegedly only 225 bucket seat options. HOWEVER, SMS wanted something like six weeks to assemble the kit for my guys to install. When I spoke with my installation guys they said, "We can do it faster ourselves, and better to boot." Tall order. But they absolutely delivered! I gave them six weeks total and a budget. They completed disassembly, stitched the covers together, installed new carpet and all new vinyl (visors and door panels). And they took a pass at re-doing the dash. They beat the deadline by a week, and came in right on budget - which was 40% below anything I was estimated here in the Atlanta area.

The challenge? They are located 4 hours south of ATL, which meant I spent a lot of time with them up front getting to know them. Because I didn't go back until they called me to pick it up. I did have this going for me: I'd seen their work, had a great recommendation from Peach State region member Frank Patton, and I could see that they were a reputable outfit. At any rate, don't hold their name against them: Hemee Head in Nashville GA. I hope you consider them Art.

Director, Peach State region
1958 extended deck sedan touring badge; 1st Touring '07
1966 Eldorado Senior Touring badge; 2nd Primary '19
1996 Fleetwood Brougham, 2nd Primary '12
2013 XTS

Caddy Wizard

MAJOR UPDATE ON THIS TOPIC -- I ordered the fabrics in June and was told that they had them all in stock, on hand.  They said the fabrics would be shipped in approximately two weeks. 

I waited.  They sent me the vinyl, but no cloth.

Eventually they admitted that they didn't have all of the fabrics on hand and that they had to make some.  Said it would be done in September.  Now they say that they will make them in October and send them to me then.

I have purchased from them before with good service.  Obviously, not this time.
Art Gardner


1955 S60 Fleetwood sedan (now under resto -- has been in paint shop since June 2022!)
1955 S62 Coupe (future show car? 2/3 done)
1958 Eldo Seville (2/3 done)

Vince Taliano #13852

Quote from: J. Douglas Bailey on July 28, 2019, 05:47:51 PM
I too got into the habit of brushing off my backside whenever I got out of my '66 Eldorado. The original leather had been spray-dyed at some point and after I drove it for four years it was simply dried out and shredded. I lean toward preservation as Art Gardner knows, but this was getting ridiculous. I shopped around for about three years as the seats got worse. (Okay, mainly the driver's seat got worse, and I don't want to hear about losing weight either - but I drive the heck outta this car - to San Marcos in '18 and Louisville in '19.) .

I called SMS because they matched the carpets and headliner perfectly 15 years ago for my '58. This time, they had the exact perforated and smooth leather materials for this '66, and the patterns to stick it all together. That is amazing, since Cadillac only built 2250 Eldo convertibles and allegedly only 225 bucket seat options. HOWEVER, SMS wanted something like six weeks to assemble the kit for my guys to install. When I spoke with my installation guys they said, "We can do it faster ourselves, and better to boot." Tall order. But they absolutely delivered! I gave them six weeks total and a budget. They completed disassembly, stitched the covers together, installed new carpet and all new vinyl (visors and door panels). And they took a pass at re-doing the dash. They beat the deadline by a week, and came in right on budget - which was 40% below anything I was estimated here in the Atlanta area.

The challenge? They are located 4 hours south of ATL, which meant I spent a lot of time with them up front getting to know them. Because I didn't go back until they called me to pick it up. I did have this going for me: I'd seen their work, had a great recommendation from Peach State region member Frank Patton, and I could see that they were a reputable outfit. At any rate, don't hold their name against them: Hemee Head in Nashville GA. I hope you consider them Art.

Check out Doug's full story and see more photos in the September issue of the Caddie Chronicle at http://www.clcpotomacregion.org/forms/CLCPR.1909Newsletter.pdf.

Thanks again for sharing, Doug.  We appreciate your submission!
Vince Taliano
CLC Potomac Region
www.clcpotomacregion.org (view over 3,000 pictures!)

Jason Edge

Quote from: Art Gardner CLC 23021 on July 17, 2019, 10:07:53 AM
They shipped them yesterday, about 3 weeks after I ordered them. ...  They told me that the materials I was ordering were in stock and apparently that was the case.
As an individual that sells parts on the side, the fact it takes 3 weeks to pull and ship something in stock amuses me. I rarely take more than one day to box and ship something. Today I had 4 orders, all went out today, dropped off at the PO before they closed shaving an extra day off the normal 2 to 3 day priority ship time.  I have the utmost respect for SMS, but remember ordering some 63/64 Cadillac trunk material last year, and asked the lady that took the order if this was an in stock on the shelf item and she said yes. I asked how long would it take to receive and she said 3 to 4 weeks. I asked why it would take so long and she said they had to process the order.  I said... OK. LOL 

I have to say that as great as their product is, and definitely understand when something has to be made, I get a chuckle when I read about their 3 week ship time for items in stock. I have this vision of Mr. Tudball from the Carol Burnett Show packing the order. .. but slower!

OK.. I know I am a low volume nobody but... geez... 3 weeks, and they have a staff!  My staff are my two Yorkies that watch me pack my parts!  Again, top notch product and I always recommend them for the original and correct materials... just an observation on ship time.
Jason Edge
Lifetime Member
Executive Vice President
CLC 1963/64 Cadillac Chapter Director - www.6364Cadillac.com
CLC Carolina Region Webmaster - www.CRCLC.org
CLC MRC Benefactor
email - jasonedge64@outlook.com
1964 Coupe DeVille - Sierra Gold - http://bit.ly/1WnOQRX
2002 Escalade EXT - Black
2013 Escalade EXT Premium Edition - Xenon Blue
2022 XT5 Luxury Premium - Dark Moon Blue Metallic

novetti

I would buy from them but reading their appalling reviews and leaving stranded some overseas buyers in the past from what I read I am not willing to entertain the risk.

I fought from other companies and found equivalents where possible.
54' Iris Blue (Preservation)
54' Cabot Gray (Restoration)
58' Lincoln Continental Convertible (Restoration)
58' Ford Skyliner (Preservation)

RobertM

I am now on 14 months waiting for the job they promised in 6 months to refab my '54s door panels.  So I won't do that again with them. Ever.

But I do plan on crossing my fingers and using them to order the fabric to reupholster my seats.  I want the original v-crest pattern and I'm sure I won't find that anywhere else. Perhaps I can turn this extended wait into a small discount. We will see.
Bob Melms

1954 60 Special
1995 Sedan Deville
1999 Eldorado (RIP 2018)
Connecticut, USA