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Looking for information on a 1941 Series 75

Started by RDabrowski, August 02, 2019, 12:23:41 PM

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RDabrowski

I have a client with whom I am working on documenting the history of a 1941 Series 75 Imperial Limousine style number 41-7533.

I have seen statements saying that 757 of these cars were produced in 1941.  I am interested to know if this was the total production of all series 75 limousines or just for the Imperial models.

I am having a difficult time documenting this car as it appears to have a 1947 engine installed and the documentation for its latest Wisconsin title lists the 1947 engine number.  The serial number stamped on the frame rail near the steering box has been obliterated.  Is there anywhere else where the original serial number can be found?   I would like to order the data package from the GM Heritage center but cannot do so without the original serial number.

I have attached a photo of the body tag for reference.

Any information that can be provided is appreciated.

39LaSalleDriver

I'll admit I don't know squat about 41s of any type, but for what it's worth, on my 39 LaSalle the VIN number is also stamped on a plate (I think it's on a plate) attached to the drivers door jamb (between the hinges on the body of car). Might be worth a look anyway.
Jon Isaacson

1939 LaSalle 5019

harry s

According to the book 80 Years of Cadillac the production number you list is for the Model 7533 only. The data plate shows a SO (Special Order) number which should be the sheet number it is written on. This was the case for my 1937 Cad. There is no way that I know of to figure out what the sequence of those order sheets are. It could be the zone, the dealer or some other order. I don't know of any other location of the VIN on those cars than the engine or frame.   Harry
Harry Scott 4195
1941 6733
1948 6267X
2011 DTS Platinum

Tom Boehm

Jon are you sure the VIN number is on that plate? My understanding is that plate is provided to record your last oil change.

Barry M Wheeler #2189

The SO Trim # is higher than the listings of the "Special Laidlaw" cloths available in the Master Parts Book. The few books available with the information on the cloth used in the car are lost in time. They were probably made only for the larger dealerships where such orders might come in. If you have any of the original cloth left on the seats, please try and preserve it as this car was possibly a very special order one. The material used in this car was probably of a type that the purchaser wanted something that the average customer had no idea on how to get. "Something that "no one" else in the world has."

I found a similar swatch years ago that I have misplaced. You may have a car that the interior was very special indeed. Can you post pictures of the cloth?
Barry M. Wheeler #2189


1981 Cadillac Seville
1991 Cadillac Seville

39LaSalleDriver

Quote from: Tom Boehm on August 02, 2019, 08:31:33 PM
Jon are you sure the VIN number is on that plate? My understanding is that plate is provided to record your last oil change.

Sure am. Mind you, I'm not talking about the plate that looks somewhat like a modified Cadillac badge with rectangles for filling in the oil change numbers. No, on mine it is a rectangular piece separately riveted to the body (if I remember correctly, I haven't looked at it in a while so it might be stamped directly to the body). It definitely bears the VIN number. I know this because when I first got my car, I was having difficulty locating the VIN on the frame and engine, but was able to find it on that plate which also matches the frame and engine numbers. Of course, I've since verified those other numbers. I'll try to remember to take a photo of it and post it later this morning.
Jon Isaacson

1939 LaSalle 5019

39LaSalleDriver

Here it is. Now I'm not claiming that it's factory or even dealer original, I don't know. But somebody at some time, for some reason put it on there.
Jon Isaacson

1939 LaSalle 5019

Brad Ipsen CLC #737

I haven't seen this on all cars I have disassembled but there is a hidden serial number on the frame on some cars.  The location is on the top of the main frame rail in the drivers door region.  You cannot easily see this with the body on the car.  If you clean this area with a piece of sandpaper and then look with a mirror you may find it.
Brad Ipsen
1940 Cadillac 60S
1938 Cadillac 9039
1940 Cadillac 6267
1940 LaSalle 5227
1949 Cadillac 6237X
1940 Cadillac 60S Limo

Bob Hoffmann CLC#96

Guys,
Here's a multifaceted reply.
#1 Richard, There are ways to bring back numbers that were stamped in steel. They use it on stolen guns. Brads idea may work also.
#2 Jon,
That plate is NOT factory. Looks like a DMV or police dept. thing. That kind of plate SHOULD have been used on all Cadillac's.
#3 Barry, that SO could be anything, not necessary fabric.
Harry,
I'm confused by your comments. The SO #'s started at #1 & went until end of production. The first one could have been a convertible show car paint  & the next one special fabric in a limo. And so on. Every car left the factory with an invoice & a SO was on that sheet if there was an SO on that car.
Bob
1968 Eldorado slick top ,white/red interior
2015 Holden Ute HSV Maloo red/black interior.
             
Too much fun is more than you can have.

RDabrowski

Many thanks to everyone who has posted on this topic so far.  One of my challenges in researching this car is that the car is not directly accessible to me, as the car is in California and I’m in Connecticut.  I have to rely on the owner of the facility where the car is in storage to be my “eyes”. 

The serial number on the forward part of the frame is definitely not recoverable.  It was destroyed by running a bead of weld across it.  One has to wonder why this was done; perhaps it was the requirement of some state DMV when the engine was changed.  I am going to see if Brad’s idea can work and attempt to find numbers elsewhere on the frame.   It would have been very nice of this car had a plate on the door post like Jon’s car but of course it doesn’t.

I would like to learn more about the Special Order sheets that Harry mentioned.  Are these documents recoverable? 

Richard Dabrowski

harry s

Bob, I was going from memory (dangerous for a guy my age) thinking there was an order number sequence that tied into the data plate stamping. Here are pictures of the data plate on my '37, build sheet and subsequent change orders. You can see the stamped data plate number designated as an FO and is listed on the build sheet under Supp S.B.O. There are SO numbers listed on the Change Orders. By the way I'm not sure if the change order for shipment to Bombay, India is my car or not. I got quite a bit of paper work with the car and there is no indication of it ever being out of the country. It would be nice to figure all this out.      Harry
Harry Scott 4195
1941 6733
1948 6267X
2011 DTS Platinum

Bob Hoffmann CLC#96

Quote from: RDabrowski on August 05, 2019, 10:52:12 AM
Many thanks to everyone who has posted on this topic so far.  One of my challenges in researching this car is that the car is not directly accessible to me, as the car is in California and I’m in Connecticut.  I have to rely on the owner of the facility where the car is in storage to be my “eyes”. 

The serial number on the forward part of the frame is definitely not recoverable.  It was destroyed by running a bead of weld across it.  One has to wonder why this was done; perhaps it was the requirement of some state DMV when the engine was changed.  I am going to see if Brad’s idea can work and attempt to find numbers elsewhere on the frame.   It would have been very nice of this car had a plate on the door post like Jon’s car but of course it doesn’t.

I would like to learn more about the Special Order sheets that Harry mentioned.  Are these documents recoverable? 

Richard Dabrowski
Unless you find the VIN using Brads suggestion, you are SOL. I feel that most SO 75 series cars were, as Barry suggested, having to do with interior fabrics.
Good Luck. Bob
1968 Eldorado slick top ,white/red interior
2015 Holden Ute HSV Maloo red/black interior.
             
Too much fun is more than you can have.

Bob Hoffmann CLC#96

Harry,
That's a VERY unusual invoice!! I'm trying to figure it out. Is the car or was it ever RHD? How did it get back from India? Lots of questions.
Bob
1968 Eldorado slick top ,white/red interior
2015 Holden Ute HSV Maloo red/black interior.
             
Too much fun is more than you can have.

39LaSalleDriver

Quote from: Bob Hoffmann CLC#96 on August 04, 2019, 07:27:20 PM
#2 Jon,
That plate is NOT factory. Looks like a DMV or police dept. thing. That kind of plate SHOULD have been used on all Cadillac's.

Interesting thoughts, and ones that make sense. I'll probably never know the who, when, or why of it. I note that the pop rivets which hold it on were first used around 1939 so that's no help really. That being said, it is handy having it there. Thanks for the insight.
Jon Isaacson

1939 LaSalle 5019

harry s

Bob, When I saw the order for shipping to India the first thing was to check and see if there was any indication of previous RHD-nothing. I spoke to the great nephew of the original owner who i bought the car from and he had no knowledge. The selling dealer went out of business sometime in the mid 60s. If you or anyone else has any insight it would be great.    Harry
Harry Scott 4195
1941 6733
1948 6267X
2011 DTS Platinum

Bob Hoffmann CLC#96

#15
Harry,
I think the last 2 pages you have belong to another car.
I see 2 SO's on your car. The paint is a 1936 color Thessalon Green  & the leather is an upgrade to EO which stands for Eagle Ottawa.
HTH, Bob
1968 Eldorado slick top ,white/red interior
2015 Holden Ute HSV Maloo red/black interior.
             
Too much fun is more than you can have.

harry s

Bob, Thanks for the info. I think you are probably right about the two other sheets especially the one shipping to India are for another car.
Richard, I don't know of any way to use the SO number on the firewall tag for the '41 to trace the history. With any luck the number location Brad mentioned will be of help. Only other thing I can think of is to remove seats and trunk material to maybe find some documentation. Keep us posted. Thanks,   Harry
Harry Scott 4195
1941 6733
1948 6267X
2011 DTS Platinum

Barry M Wheeler #2189

Bob, the SO # on the body plate of the car I took the special fabric swatch from was a similar four digit #. That is why I thought that it might have referred to the fabric #.

Also, the other car that I did find that was listed in the special fabrics section of the Master Parts Book did "match" with the body plate (when I got back home to check.) I will always regret not buying that car and taking just the seats home since they were covered with seat covers and "might" have been usable.
Barry M. Wheeler #2189


1981 Cadillac Seville
1991 Cadillac Seville