Lectric Limited Electronic Upgrade

[Ed Burke]

I recently installed the Lectric Limited Breakerless Electronic Ignition.  Before I installed it the points and condenser ran fairly good. Rough idle at times motivated me to try the electronic ignition. Installation went smooth. I cranked it and noticed immediately the engine seemed to struggle to crank over. It got "hung" for a moment then cranked.Once it struggled to start it ran rough at idle. High rpm it seems to be very smooth though. I checked all the plug wires and connections. I will admit I am not sure if the rotor was installed correctly. But if it was 180 degrees out it wouldn't even start. Correct? The timing was good before the install. Does it need to be redone?

[Big Fins]

The fact that you said it struggled and gut hung, indicates that the base timing may be too far advanced. Get your timing light, loosen the dizzy just enough to move it and see where you are Take a little silver nail polish and mark the 5*BTDC mark on the harmonic balancer. I'm using 5 degrees because you don't state what year car or engine size you have. Just about any original points equipped car will run great at 5 degrees.

And yes, if the rotor was 180 out you would be popping through the carb and maybe blowing the exhaust system to bits.

Let us know the outcome.

[Ed Burke]

Ok. Great! I will tackle this tomorrow. I was just surprised the timing would be off when it ran great before. BTW it's 59 with a 390

[Big Fins]

Then setting the base timing at 10 degrees BTDC will give it a little more low end grunt. Make sure you block off the vacuum advance can first.

[Ed Burke]

Am I blocking off the vacum advance in both cases?.
Interesting story. I just went to the auto parts store and asked where their timing lights were. The young man had no idea what I was talking about. I further asked if he knew what points and condenser were. He had no idea. I said we have a generation gap here son. We both laughed.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

I am not sure if my auto parts store sells timing equipment, as I have never seen any there.

The last Timing Light I purchased, which was a month ago came to me via the postman, and I purchased it through onlineautoparts

https://www.onlineautoparts.com.au/products/Innova-Digital-Timing-Light-with-Advance-Tacho-Petrol-Engine-Ignition-Tune-Up-Tool-591-538/ZPN-11437

And was a lot cheaper than Amazon.

It wasn't the cheapest, but had the Tachometer, and adjustable Advance features, which have proven to be one of the better purchases I have made.   Far better than my old one, which was basic, but I used for 50 years.

Bruce.

[TJ Hopland]

I would think there is a decent chance a parts store has one in stock and for sure could order them.    Have you tried pawn shops or craigs list?       

[Big Fins]

Am I blocking off the vacum advance in both cases?.

Ed, anytime you make adjustments to ignition timing, you must disconnect the vacuum source to the advance on either end. IIRC the line from the carb to the dizzy is steel and it connects with a flare fitting on both ends. Memory is foggy on that one. But when you do disconnect the line, it must be plugged to avoid a vacuum leak, which will change the rpm, therefore throwing off your base setting.

You may have to go over setting the base idle which is done at the dashpot on the firewall, then setting the distributor timing. These instructions can be found in the FSM with pictures.

[Ed Burke]

I am assuming the dizzy is distributor? What does FSM stand for?

[Ed Burke]

I have the distribuator locking bolt loose but I can't turn the distributor either way. Anyone ever have this problem?

[TJ Hopland]

Yes dizzy is distributor.

Factory Service Manual

Its not that uncommon to have a distributor stick especially if they and what they are going into are different metals.   I don't know that engine so not sure if its a common issue or what the tricks are to get it loose.   

[Ed Burke]

Actually, before I make a complete fool of myself I will admit I didn't disconnect the vacuum line. Once I did, it moved freely!
I really appreciate having you guys to lean on. I haven't worked on these cars since I was in my teens. This 59 was my mom's and I grew up being carted around in her. I ordered the timing light. It will be here tomorrow. In the mean time I plugged the vacuum line and set the timing by ear. It already starts easier and runs smoother with the electronic ignition. I let you know how the finishing touches go.

[Big Fins]

Soak it in PB Blaster or it's equivalent is about all you can do for that. The distributor, or 'dizzy', is aluminum and the block is cast iron. Applying too much pressure on the shaft of the dizzy could cause it to either shatter, or snap off. You're going to have to work patiently at this one. The only other way to loosen it is drop the oil pan, oil pump and drive it up from the bottom. Not something I would want to do.

Get a can of PB Blaster, you can buy it anywhere auto parts are sold, even department stores and spray it a couple of times a day for about a week.  I know it's difficult to get in back there, it's tight. Been there, done that. After a week or so, tap the area around the base of the shaft on the block with a drift and a brass hammer. This will help break up the corrosion. Don't beat on it, just tap it easily in a circular motion. This will also help the solvent get in between the metals.

Anyone with a better suggestion, have at it.

EDIT: I was typing when you were posting.

[Ed Burke]

What kind of lube oil should go down the lube pipe for the distributor?

[Big Fins]

A few drops of regular engine oil. I think the book calls for three drops.  Same with the generator bearing caps. It's noted in the FSM.

[Ed Burke]

Thank You! You helped me greatly.
The tuneup is complete. The electronic ignition is operating like I hoped. I set the timing and its runs better. However, I did a compression check on all 8 cylinders and 6 out of the 8 are not good. Apparently the valves are weak. I am going to make another post asking everyone's opinion on just doing the heads. I've heard from many mechanics that have said if you do the heads do the whole engine. I don't want to spend the money on a whole rebuild right now so I am debating if a top end rebuild will be ok.

[TJ Hopland]

How long have you had this car?   What were your compression numbers?

[Ed Burke]

The car has been in my family since I was born. 58 years. I estimate it has between 50 and 60 thousand miles. However, my dad wasn't into changing oil. If he ever did.
#1  - 120   /cylinder leakage 45%
#2  - 150
#3  - 155
#4  - 165
#5  - 125  /cylinder leakage 55%
#6  - 130  /cylinder leakage 85%
#7  - 165
#8  - 165  /cylinder leakage 10%
The remaining numbers are lost

[Big Fins]

You have three that are questionable. These are dry numbers? Did you add a little oil to the weak cylinders to see if they come up at all?

Sometimes, making the top end tight puts a lot of pressure on the bottom end. Until you are ready to do a complete overhaul, I would drive it and enjoy it. I ran my 390 for over 20,000 miles with broken rings and my numbers were worse than yours. Just taking off the hood alone is a 4 person job. Though it can be done with two people and an engine hoist. 

[TJ Hopland]

That would be my thought too,  drive it for a while and see if anything changes.   Pulling heads is fine if you are young and able and have more time than money but the older and less able you get it almost becomes easier to pull the engine.