News:

Due to a technical issue, some recently uploaded pictures have been lost. We are investigating why this happened but the issue has been resolved so that future uploads should be safe.  You can also Modify your post (MORE...) and re-upload the pictures in your post.

Main Menu

1941 Cadillac Hard Starting After Sitting for a Few Days

Started by ghjedi, August 13, 2019, 11:31:02 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

ghjedi

Hello,

I can use some advice on a 1941 Series 63 that I recently acquired.  It's an all original car with a recently rebuilt Stromberg carb.  The car runs and drives great, except for hard starts after sitting for more than a few days.  If the car has been sitting, it will not start unless I take the air cleaner off and shoot starter fluid down the carb to get it primed and running.  It typically takes me 2-3 attempts before the glass fuel filter bowl is filled to roughly three quarters level and fuel is flowing into the carb.  Once this is accomplished, I can drive the car just fine without any issues.  It never stalls, doesn't leak any fuel, and I can also park it, turn it off, and it starts right up minutes later without any issues.  Even starting the car the next day or the following day is no issue after having driven it recently.  I've never had this happen on my '60s Cadillacs, so any ideas on what the issue might be or what I should check?

Thanks in advance
1964 DeVille Convertible
1960 Coupe DeVille
1949 Series 62 Convertible
1941 Series 63

Jay Friedman

How many days is a "few days" with your car? 

My '49, with a 2-barrel Carter WCD carburetor, is the same way after about 2 weeks, when I have to squirt in some starter fluid.  The fuel in the carburetor and fuel pump just evaporates and the carb gets dry.  I usually drive the car at least once a week, but occasionally when out of town or whatever cannot.  The only "fix" I know of is to start and drive it as often as possible.
1949 Cadillac 6107 Club Coupe
1932 Ford V8 Phaeton (restored, not a rod).  Sold
Decatur, Georgia
CLC # 3210, since 1984
"If it won't work, get a bigger hammer."

ghjedi

A "few days" in my case is 4 or more.  The glass fuel bowl refills after several cranks and 2-3 good shots of starter fluid down the carb, but I'd like to avoid all of this wear, if possible.  I am disciplined about driving my Cadillacs at least once every 2 weeks, and I've never had to use starter fluid to prime either my 1960 or 1964 DeVille.  It can definitely take some cranking and pumping of the gas pedal, if they sit too long.  It just seems odd to me that my '41 will not start after sitting for 4+ days without me priming it first.  That's not an unduly long time, and I can't imagine priming was frequently required back in the day to drive these cars.

Thanks for sharing your '49 experience.
1964 DeVille Convertible
1960 Coupe DeVille
1949 Series 62 Convertible
1941 Series 63

Bob Schuman

In my experience with 40, 41, 49, 51 Cadillacs and a 79 Olds engine, it has been common to have exactly what you are seeing. I believe gasolines years ago did not evaporate so quickly like present gas does, but that is just my opinion. Also, cars are designed to be used frequently, not like we use our collector cars.
I can offer two suggestions.
1. After the car has been unused for a few days, do not touch the accelerator, but crank with the starter for 5,6, maybe 7 seconds. Stop, wait at least 30 seconds, then pump the accelerator twice and crank. It should start quickly if the choke is closing properly.
2. If you don't like the above idea, install an electric pump near the tank with an underdash switch for priming and also for possible use if vapor lock occurs. Be sure the pump you use produces not more than 5 psi pressure to avoid carburetor flooding. I know some persons don't like electric pumps, I do like them. It's a matter of opinion.
Bob Schuman, CLC#254
2017 CT6-unsatisfactory (repurchased by GM)
2023 XT5

goob

Electric fuel pumps are my choice...or an anti siphon valve between the pump and the carb...usually available at marine supply places.

z3skybolt

#5
My 1940 LaSalle...

....behaves the same way after sitting for 3 or 4 days. I normally operate using the mechanical pump exclusively, but have an Airtex electric as a backup.  The Airtex is a lifesaver on hot days when she vapor locks.

If the vehicle has been sitting for a few days.....I turn the electric pump on for a few seconds before cranking.  Then she  fires right up. 


Bob
1940 LaSalle 5227 Coupe(purchased May 2016)
1985 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series. Bought New.

Jim Miller

I have successfully used Bob Schuman's advice for both my '41 and '49. If more than a few days I run the electric fuel pump for about 15 seconds, then crank using Bob's instructions.
Jim Miller

1941 6219
1949 6237X
1970 CDV
2021 XT6
Past:
1991 SDV
1999 DeElegence
2006 DTS
2013 XTS
2016 SRX

Bill Kaufman CLC# 15225

I had the same problem with my 48 with the Carter WCB . I was able to cure a lot of the problem by adjusting the choke to close to spec so that the carb would naturally suck more fuel when cool. But the car still requires a few good pumps on the foot feed to get her going after sitting. 
If you ain't Wrenching ...  You ain't Livin.  So get out there and Live a little..  !!

Current Labors of LOVE;
1948 series 62 Club Coupe / 346 L head / Rendon Blue
1954 series 62 Sport Coupe / 331 V8 / Aztec Red
1970 Deville Rag Top / 472 V8 / Nottingham Green

Previous Caddies ;

1969 Fleetwood Eldorado / 472 V8 / Wisteria
1974 Sedan DeVille
1993 SLS / White Diamond
2006 CTS / White Diamond

ghjedi

Thank you for the helpful suggestions!  It's hard to find people in my area who know how this older car operates, so I very much appreciate your insights.  I want to keep the car as original as possible, as it's an unmolested survivor with original paint, interior, etc.  with only 20K documented miles.  I'm leaning toward the anti-siphon value, or just living with the extra startup procedures to keep it as original as possible.
1964 DeVille Convertible
1960 Coupe DeVille
1949 Series 62 Convertible
1941 Series 63

35-709

Starter fluid is OK but I am a bit leery of using it on even a semi-regular basis.  It is tough on the internal engine components (IMO), notice how the engine knocks and rattles when firing up on starting fluid (aka, ether)?  As an alternative to that, if something is needed to get the engine running, how about some gasoline in a squirt can like that used for oil?  A pump or two used in the same fashion as the starting fluid is much easier on the engine and should serve the same purpose.  My 2 cents.

1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

Jim Govoni CLC 20546

Hi Jeff;  I just got my 1941 Series 63 today from WI. I appreciate your post and will take heed. I too will try what Bob Schumann suggests. Mine is an all original with 40K on it. New tires are needed right now but I am sure other things will pop up.  Best of luck to us!
1953 Series 62 
1966 Fleetwood 
1969 deVille Convert.
1941 Series 63

Jim Miller

Jim
Very nice '41. I really enjoy mine. Jeff, post a photo of yours.
Jim
Jim Miller

1941 6219
1949 6237X
1970 CDV
2021 XT6
Past:
1991 SDV
1999 DeElegence
2006 DTS
2013 XTS
2016 SRX

Bill Ingler #7799

Hi Jeff: As Bob Schuman and Jim Miller have already posted, get a 6 volt aux pump for your car. Not only will it help in starting your car, it will help to eliminate vapor lock which you probably will get at sometime in driving your car. To keep your car looking original, install the aux pump near the gas tank. I suggest a 6 volt Airtex  E8011. This type of pump allows the engine fuel pump to pull fuel through the Airtex when the Airtex is not operating. Over the last 20 years I have driven my 41 or 47 on car tours to many parts of the US. The aux pump was used on every tour. Picture below is from a car tour in Colorado coming across Loveland Pass. I needed to use the aux pump all the way up and over the pass.  Bill

ghjedi

Jim- congrats on your acquisition and thanks for sharing the photos.  I also appreciate the comments on gas vs starter fluid and an electric pump... food for thought for me for sure.  I added a few photos that I have handy.  The plastic on the front driver seat covers a slight tear, the only such flaw on the interior.  The chrome radio still works too!  I was sold the moment I saw the hood ornament.
1964 DeVille Convertible
1960 Coupe DeVille
1949 Series 62 Convertible
1941 Series 63

Jim Miller

You have a very nice car there. I've had my 41 a little over two years, and I look forward to any day and any reason to take her out for a drive.
Jim Miller

1941 6219
1949 6237X
1970 CDV
2021 XT6
Past:
1991 SDV
1999 DeElegence
2006 DTS
2013 XTS
2016 SRX

39LaSalleDriver

Quote from: Bill Ingler #7799 on August 14, 2019, 07:31:53 PM
I suggest a 6 volt Airtex  E8011. This type of pump allows the engine fuel pump to pull fuel through the Airtex when the Airtex is not operating. Over the last 20 years I have driven my 41 or 47 on car tours to many parts of the US.

Not to butt in, but I disagree. The more ideal pump is the Airtex E8902 which is a 6v pump that delivers only 4 lbs. of pressure vs. 8 lbs. of the Airtex E8011. With the 8011 you would also have to add a regulator, whereas that is not necessary for the 8902. I have had great success with mine.
Jon Isaacson

1939 LaSalle 5019

Halcyondays

I hope this works; my first attempt to post.
There is another possibility here.  Some carburetors have lead plugs sealing the bottom of the float chamber.  With time, these plugs allow seepage and the gas drains into the manifold and evaporates, leaving the float chamber empty.  I have this condition in my '67 Impala and, from observation, I believe my recently acquired '40 Cadillac is the same story.  I was unsuccessful fixing the Impala and have resisted installing an electric pump.  BTW, the Cadillac came to me with a pump.  To start the Impala after a week or two of inactivity, I put about two ounces of gas into the chamber, give the accelerator pedal two pumps, and it usually fires on the first or second compression stroke.  Without adding the gas I must crank it till the mechanical fuel pump fills the chamber.  Not good!
If you wish to try this, go to a farm store and buy a syringe with a 1/8 (or so) spout.  It needs to be that small.  I believe they currently cost two to five bucks.  Go to the car and move the air intake off the carburetor throat.  There will be a small metal tube, about the size of skinny macaroni sticking up to about the top of the throat.  Squirt your gas into that tube, replace the air intake, and the car should start right up.  It takes me less than two minutes on the Impala.  But it is easier to gain access to the throat than on the Cadillac so you must decide if you will put up with the hassle.  If you feel the need to know, you can determine the exact amount of gas needed by peering into the throat (choke must be open, of course) while working the accelerator pump.  If it squirts, you are good to go.
Frank Mudge
Sedro Woolley, WA

1940 C 7567 CCP
1967 Impala SS CCP

ghjedi

Thanks Frank for the advice.  I have 1960 DeVille with the Carter carb and even after having it sit for 3 weeks (I was out of the country on vacation), I was able to start it without too much cranking.  I must be lucky that hard starting hasn't been an issue on the '60 Cadillac.  The '41 is my first car significantly older than the '60 and I was trying to understand if hard starting was par for the course or if something needed attention.  After reading through all of these posts, I now see that it's fairly normal and I'm going to try your approach to avoid extra wear on my starter, in addition to exploring the low pressure electric pump.  The starter recently had to be rebuilt and I had a very difficult time finding anyone in my area who could or would rebuild the original solenoid, which was worn out.
1964 DeVille Convertible
1960 Coupe DeVille
1949 Series 62 Convertible
1941 Series 63

bcroe

I just splash some gas into the carb to start those engines.  Starting
fluid I use for very difficult situations.  Bruce Roe

Marty Michaels

Hello Jeff,I agree with Bill and the others who advocate for a electric fuel pump. I have a 1947 series 62 after it sits a while or over the winter all I have to do is push the button for a few and she starts right up. They also are a god send when its hot it will push right thru vapor lock witch is a real pain if you run 10% ethanol. Marty
Marty Michaels
1947 6269
1941 6019s
CLC#26833