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braising over vin

Started by denis62, August 18, 2019, 09:20:13 AM

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denis62

i am trying to figure out the vin on my 1960 coupe.
the plastic tag is very yellowed and I cant make out all the numbers; some are barely stamped.
some "genius" welded a small bracket from the frame to the rad support obstructing half the number.
Dont know if its possible to read the engine Number with the engine in, or the stamp on rear of frame.

Is there a way I can I grind the brazing without erasing  the vin

Big Fins

Doubt it. But that tag is almost distinguishable with your picture. Get a magnifing glass and get a good look at it. If the picture wasn't sideways I might be able to make it out.

On the drivers side of the engine, just above the lip of the oil pan, about the middle of the block, you will see a milled boss with the number stamped into it. It may be covered with grime, but take a can of Brakleen, a wire brush and a rag under there and clean it off. Snap a close up with your cell phone. That is, IF you have the numbers matching engine. Try and compare the number with that on your plate.
Current:
1976 Eldorado Convertible in Crystal Blue FireMist with white interior and top. (Misty Blue)
1969 Fleetwood Brougham in Chalice Gold FireMist with matching interior and top. (The Old Man) SOLD!

Past and much missed:
1977 Brougham de Elegance
1976 Eldorado Convertible
1972 Fleetwood Brougham
1971 Sedan de Ville
1970 de Ville Convertible
1969 Sedan de Ville
1959 Sedan deVille

Ralph Messina CLC 4937

Guys,

Attached is a reoriented picture. I'd follow John's suggestion and examine this tag for or impressions made by the printing process. From the pic I make it to be 60G038794. What can been seen of the frame number appears to 60G0....which is a promising start. Checking the block stamping will provide more definitive information.
1966 Fleetwood Brougham-with a new caretaker http://bit.ly/1GCn8I4
1966 Eldorado-with a new caretaker  http://bit.ly/1OrxLoY
2018 GMC Yukon

Big Fins

I concur Ralph's number.  60G038794
Current:
1976 Eldorado Convertible in Crystal Blue FireMist with white interior and top. (Misty Blue)
1969 Fleetwood Brougham in Chalice Gold FireMist with matching interior and top. (The Old Man) SOLD!

Past and much missed:
1977 Brougham de Elegance
1976 Eldorado Convertible
1972 Fleetwood Brougham
1971 Sedan de Ville
1970 de Ville Convertible
1969 Sedan de Ville
1959 Sedan deVille

Mike Josephic CLC #3877

I blew it up and get:
60 6? 38794

Can't quite make out the "?" but that's easy.

Standard way the factory listed a serial number in
those days.  the 6? is the series (body style) in other
words if it's a Coupe De Ville the number would read:
60-62-38794.

Mike
1955 Cadillac Eldorado
1973 Cadillac Eldorado
1995 Cadillac Seville
2004 Escalade
1997 GMC Suburban 4X4, 454 engine, 3/4 ton
custom built by Santa Fe in Evansville, IN
2011 Buick Lucerne CX
-------------------------------------
CLCMRC Museum Benefactor #38
Past: VP International Affiliates, Museum Board Director, President / Director Pittsburgh Region

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

#5
G = Series 62 Coupe
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

cadillacmike68

That's definitely a G and not a 6. The 3 is hardest to make out, but I agree with the others on the full number
Regards,
"Cadillac" Mike

Mike Josephic CLC #3877

Hi Eric:

When did Cadillac change to the "alphabetical" symbols
to designate the series (model)?  My '55 Eldorado SN is:
55-62-21363.

Just curious to know since I had not run across this before.

Mike
1955 Cadillac Eldorado
1973 Cadillac Eldorado
1995 Cadillac Seville
2004 Escalade
1997 GMC Suburban 4X4, 454 engine, 3/4 ton
custom built by Santa Fe in Evansville, IN
2011 Buick Lucerne CX
-------------------------------------
CLCMRC Museum Benefactor #38
Past: VP International Affiliates, Museum Board Director, President / Director Pittsburgh Region

Ralph Messina CLC 4937

Mike,

I believe the letter model designation  started in  '58.
1966 Fleetwood Brougham-with a new caretaker http://bit.ly/1GCn8I4
1966 Eldorado-with a new caretaker  http://bit.ly/1OrxLoY
2018 GMC Yukon

Glen

I agree with Ralph.  60G038794  I did not see the zero after the G the first time, I thought it was a space.   
Glen Houlton CLC #727 
CLCMRC benefactor #104

G Pennington

To answer the poster's original question,  theoretically, you should be able to heat the area sufficiently to melt the brazing material (but not the steel).  Maybe 1500F (orange).  Then use an air gun th blast away the molten braze material from the area of the VIN.
I say theoretically because (1.) I've never done this myself,  and (2.) because it's obviously dangerous (molten metal spray,  heat damage, fire hazard, etc.); but, with common sense safety precautions,  it might work.
Also, the number on the plastic tag is not the "official " VIN number.  If you are trying to get the car titled, the DMV inspector may insist on seeing the stamped number on the chassis.
Gary Pennington
   1953 6267X Convertible
   1941 6267D Convertible (2 door)

denis62

#11
First I need to thank you all for your help.

update

I put the plastic tag over a light using a piece of cardboard with a thin cut-out.
got a better look, took more pics. the pics previously posted was the best of about 30 pics I took with different light, settings etc.

left the tag over light a little too long and it started to get soft(oops)

after reviewing the 20 more pics I took, the "8" definitely is a "3"
makes it 60G033794

I realize that the plastic tag can be replaced, so can the motor
So my next question; 
Is it possible to see the VIN on the back of frame with the body on ?

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

If the number is still in doubt, try getting a tracing with some blank paper and a pencil.

Other than the top of the driver's side frame rail, I have no knowledge of frame VIN markings except for the "mystery location" stamping only known to law enforcement which seems to be a jealously guarded secret.

If the engine stamping matches the VIN tag, that would be good enough for me. 
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

denis62

It is also stamped on the driver side rear frame rail about mid way between rear wheel and bumper.
I have seen pics of it on pics of frame off resto


Bob Hoffmann CLC#96

Denis,
So... do you have enough info to accomplish what you need to do? You never said what you were trying to do, DMV, your own info or??
Bob
1968 Eldorado slick top ,white/red interior
2015 Holden Ute HSV Maloo red/black interior.
             
Too much fun is more than you can have.

denis62

yes DMV
the car is at my outdoor storage about 20 min away.
I haven't tried finding the engine # yet. seems hard to get to from the top.

76eldo

The engine number can’t be seen from the top.
The original frame stamping on the front frame is very lightly stamped. Even on a very nice frame they can be hard to read.

If you need a VIN number to match your title and you can corroborate the number from the plastic service tag as well as the number on the block, I would go online and buy some sort of Cadillac repro VIN plate from an earlier year. They made them for cars in the 30’s and 40’s.

Go to Harbor Freight and buy a 1/4 inch letter and number punch set and make up a tag and rivet it to the driver’s door edge or in the jamb.

The only reason you would need this is for licensing or exporting and a repro VIN tag will look just fine. You can even age it if you need to.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

In PA a tracing of plastic tag would suffice. 
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

denis62

I tried tracing, most of it doesn't show up.
Just want to be legal so nothing comes back later and bite me in the ...