‘52 front hub/bearing question

[Rdtreur]

I’m rebuilding the brakes on my 1952 series 62 coupe. On the front I got the hub off the knuckle. I noticed the inner race that is on the knuckle is easy to remove/install... should this race be like this of should it be press fit?
I’m also noticing that I’m missing the “grease retainer” ring (see photo from shop manual).
Do I need this grease retainer or is this a part that I can do without?

Many thanks Ramon

[Daryl Chesterman]

Ramon, are you sure that the grease retainer is missing?  It is a press fit in the hub.  You do need the grease retainer(seal), as it keeps the grease from slinging out of the hub, and also keeps dirt and water from getting into the hub and bearings.  The original grease seal was probably a leather composition, but the newer seals are much better and will retain their flexibility much longer than the leather ones.    My research shows that your car uses an SKF 19940 seal for the front knuckle(spindle).

The inner race of the inside bearing is not a press fit, and should be easily removed, just as the inner race for the outer bearing is easily removed.  The knuckle(spindle) should be greased prior to installing the inner bearing race.

Daryl Chesterman

[Rdtreur]

Thanks Daryl, I will check the hub for the retainer. And thanks on the info on the inner race on the spindle. This saves me a lot of $$$ buying new bearings😀.

Ramon Treur

[Rdtreur]

I did found the seals in the hub Daryl:-). Maybe you can help me out one more time: I need the rear brake shoes and rockauto send me the wrong (12 inch front) ones. I need shoes for my 11 inch rear drums. Do you have a part number for the rear shoes?

Many thanks, Ramon

Ramon, are you sure that the grease retainer is missing?  It is a press fit in the hub.  You do need the grease retainer(seal), as it keeps the grease from slinging out of the hub, and also keeps dirt and water from getting into the hub and bearings.  The original grease seal was probably a leather composition, but the newer seals are much better and will retain their flexibility much longer than the leather ones.    My research shows that your car uses an SKF 19940 seal for the front knuckle(spindle).

The inner race of the inside bearing is not a press fit, and should be easily removed, just as the inner race for the outer bearing is easily removed.  The knuckle(spindle) should be greased prior to installing the inner bearing race.

Daryl Chesterman

[Jay Friedman]

According to my 1935-55 Master Parts List, the part number for a 1952 rear brake shoe set (for 2 wheels, right and left) is
363 0278.  The dimensions are 11 inches by 2½ inches. 

[Rdtreur]

According to my 1935-55 Master Parts List, the part number for a 1952 rear brake shoe set (for 2 wheels, right and left) is
363 0278.  The dimensions are 11 inches by 2½ inches.

Many thanks jay, this confirms that I need 11 inch shoes:-) . Any idea how I can renumber that master parts list number you gave me? Al the brake sites would not work with a number like that . I tried raybestos, Wagner, acdelco...
Thanks again,
Ramon Treur

[Daryl Chesterman]

Ramon,
Look on Rock Auto again, only this time look at the 1952 Chevrolet, Belair, 3.9L, Brake and wheel hub, brake shoe.  There are some 11 x 2 brake shoes there, and if you click on the "info" button, you get a good picture of what the brake shoe profile looks like.  Since it is a General Motors brake shoe, there is a good chance that it will be the same as yours.  Another alternative is that there are places that will put new brake linings on your old brake shoes, as long as the old shoes have not worn down to the point where the old lining is all gone and there was metal-to-metal wear from brake shoe to brake drum.  If this is the way that you have to go, your local auto parts places should be able to help you locate a business that will do this for you.

Daryl Chesterman

[Jay Friedman]

Ramon,
Look on Rock Auto again, only this time look at the 1952 Chevrolet, Belair, 3.9L, Brake and wheel hub, brake shoe.  There are some 11 x 2 brake shoes there....

IMHO Chevrolet 11 x 2 brake shoes would not be adequate for a '52 Cadillac which is a much bigger and heavier car than a '52 Chev.  The specs for '52 Cad shoes are 11 x 2½, which provide that much more surface area on the rear linings.  Try www.kanter.com, who unlike Rock Auto specialize in old cars.  They sell lined brake shoes for the rear axle only and would be more likely than Rock Auto to send you the correct size shoes.  In fact, if and when you order the shoes from Kanter ask them what are the dimensions of the shoes.

[Daryl Chesterman]

Jay, somehow, I misread your shoe dimensions as 11 x 2!!!  Thanks for correcting me, and posting the Kantor website for Ramon.  I agree that the heavier Cadillac needs all of the stopping power it can get from 2 1/2 inch brakes, not 2 inch, plus, it stays original.

Daryl Chesterman

[Jay Friedman]

Daryl, I've found as the years go by print gets smaller and smaller.  What I find perplexing is that my '49 Cad's rear shoes are 12 x 2 1/4 while the heavier '52's rear shoes are 11 x 2 1/2.  It somehow doesn't make sense, especially since '52 front shoes are 12 x 2 1/2. 

During those years, shoe sizes changed several times.  '50 and '51 are 11 x 2 1/2 front and rear, and '53 is 12 x 2 1/2 front and rear.  These model Cadillacs are similar in terms of size and weight, but the brakes progressively get larger. 

[wrench]

Daryl, I've found as the years go by print gets smaller and smaller.  What I find perplexing is that my '49 Cad's rear shoes are 12 x 2 1/4 while the heavier '52's rear shoes are 11 x 2 1/2.  It somehow doesn't make sense, especially since '52 front shoes are 12 x 2 1/2. 

During those years, shoe sizes changed several times.  '50 and '51 are 11 x 2 1/2 front and rear, and '53 is 12 x 2 1/2 front and rear.  These model Cadillacs are similar in terms of size and weight, but the brakes progressively get larger.

I know it may sound whacky, but could the Korean War have been a factor that they went to 11 inch diameter drums to save on steel?

Just a thought on why 11 inch drums in 52. Which was really 51 and they may have been concerned about strategic materials at that point.

[Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373]

For what it's worth, I just went to my local napa for the 55's brakes. This way I could see them and if they turned out to be wrong then I could just walk them back in.
Admittedly, however, I still prefer to buy from stores vs online (unless there is a huge price difference) .
Jeff

[Rdtreur]

Thanks everyone for your input. I will try to re-line the shoes. I live in The Netherlands so walking in and out the local Napa store is not a option ☹️...

Thanks again , Ramon Treur

For what it's worth, I just went to my local napa for the 55's brakes. This way I could see them and if they turned out to be wrong then I could just walk them back in.
Admittedly, however, I still prefer to buy from stores vs online (unless there is a huge price difference) .
Jeff

[Jay Friedman]

Ramon,

Here in the US many large trucks use drum brakes and it may be the same in Europe.  So, if that is true somebody in Holland must be re-lining brake shoes.  If and when you find such a place, ask them if they can "arc" the lining to your drums.  That way, when the shoes expand the lining will be in contact with the drums for their entire length.

There is a Cadillac LaSalle club member in Holland, Matern Harmsel, who has a restoration shop which works on Cadillacs.  He may be able to help.  info@mthclassicservice.nl

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Ramon,
......  If and when you find such a place, ask them if they can "arc" the shoes to your drums.  That way, when the shoes expand the lining will be in contact with the drums for their entire length. 

Instead of asking them to "Arc" the shoes, refer to it as "Radius Grind" them.

Bruce.

[Jay Friedman]

I agree.  Radius Grind makes more sense.