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Author Topic: Use of incorrect power steering fluid 65 deville  (Read 1584 times)

Offline johngmm7

  • Posts: 53
  • CLC Number: 28554
  • Name: JOHN GUY MEPHAM MOORE
Use of incorrect power steering fluid 65 deville
« on: October 29, 2019, 06:41:46 PM »
I have just completed fitting a new power steering box and hoses.  The steering is still very stiff and heavy on testing on my driveway.  On page 2-10 of my shop manual, it states Cadillac Recommended Fluid for Power Steering System - what a big help! Why didn't they state the type?  Nowhere else in the steering section have I located the type of fluid. My local parts store recommended a fluid brand of their own which I've gone ahead with.  Now with this problem where it's almost impossible to turn the steering at a standstill without using major force, I'm wondering if it can be the wrong fluid. I understand that air in the system can cause hard steering and I've gone through the recommended procedure for this without success. If I need to replace the fluid with whatever is correct, should the system be flushed or is draining sufficient. Would someone mind helping me with whatever fluid works. Many thanks, John

Offline The Tassie Devil(le)

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  • CLC Number: 18992
  • Name: Bruce Reynolds
Re: Use of incorrect power steering fluid 65 deville
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2019, 07:14:35 PM »
G'day John,

I personally would be using just Dexron III, and then jacking the car up and turning the steering wheel from lock to lock, eventually bleeding the system.

Jacking the car up, takes the pressure off the steering components, not to mention your own muscles.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Offline 35-709

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  • The most valuable antique is an old friend.
  • CLC Number: 4719
  • Name: G. Newcombe
Re: Use of incorrect power steering fluid 65 deville
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2019, 07:16:18 PM »
Power steering fluid is pretty universal stuff, they used to use ATF, you still can.  Any PS fluid in a parts store should be perfectly fine for your system except for a few oddballs like that for some foreign cars which are clearly labeled.  You have a problem (blockage?) in your system somewhere.
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

Offline EAM 17806

  • Posts: 557
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  • CLC Number: 17806
  • Name: Ev Marabian
Re: Use of incorrect power steering fluid 65 deville
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2019, 10:16:16 PM »
G'day John,

I personally would be using just Dexron III, and then jacking the car up and turning the steering wheel from lock to lock, eventually bleeding the system.

Jacking the car up, takes the pressure off the steering components, not to mention your own muscles.

Bruce. >:D
   BRUCE!  Why wouldn't you prefer to use the GM power steering fluid that is factory recommended for these systems instead of the ATF fluid?   EAM
Ev Marabian

1976 Cadillac Coupe DeVille, 1989 Chevrolet Caprice Classic, 1990 Pontiac Bonneville and 1996 Buick Skylark

Offline TJ Hopland

  • Posts: 10183
Re: Use of incorrect power steering fluid 65 deville
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2019, 12:36:59 AM »
I would think a 65 would not be that sensitive to the fluid type especially this time a year when we are not dealing with extreme ambient temps.   In the later 70's and 80's on is when I have run into them being sensitive to the fluid type especially rack n pinion systems for some reason.   When I have had the 'wrong' fluid the system still worked reasonably well but was noisy.   Sometimes they were a little odd and extra noisy when the temps were extreme.   In all cases once I looked up the correct fluid and did a few flush cycles with a turkey baster they were fine. 

I don't remember the specifics but one time I know for sure I had power steering fluid in and it called for dex/merc and another time I think with the same make it was opposite.  Strangest one is a 93 Ford I still have that calls for type F ATF.   Ford quit using that in their transmissions in the 70's I think so its getting hard to find.  2 shops said I needed a new rack and pump.  That was 10 years ago and its still going strong with the type F now that I found it.     
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Offline The Tassie Devil(le)

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  • Name: Bruce Reynolds
Re: Use of incorrect power steering fluid 65 deville
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2019, 01:45:13 AM »
   BRUCE!  Why wouldn't you prefer to use the GM power steering fluid that is factory recommended for these systems instead of the ATF fluid?   EAM 
The Shop Manuals for these years states that if GM Power Steering Fluid is not available, use Automatic Transmission Fluid.

Down here, I have never seen any specialised Power Steering Fluid up until a couple of years ago, and everyone simply used the same Automatic Transmission Fluid that the car used.    GM, Dexron III, Ford Type F.   Plus, as I never buy fluids and the like from the Dealers, (too expensive) The Oil Companies I buy from, when I was buying in bulk, way back when, They never sold any specific Power Steering Fluid, except Hydraulic Oil, and that stuff was for major machinery with hydraulic rams.

As the car in question is a '65, and not anything special with odd-ball power steering, then Dexron III will do.

Bruce. >:D
« Last Edit: October 30, 2019, 06:50:27 PM by The Tassie Devil(le) »
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Offline Glen

  • Posts: 2789
  • CLC Number: 727
  • Name: Glen Houlton
Re: Use of incorrect power steering fluid 65 deville
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2019, 02:43:42 AM »
   BRUCE!  Why wouldn't you prefer to use the GM power steering fluid that is factory recommended for these systems instead of the ATF fluid?   EAM

The cap on the power steering pump on my 68 ELDO says “AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLUID TYPE A” I recall the same on my 61 Coupe Deville.  I assume a 65 would have the same. 
Glen Houlton CLC #727 
CLCMRC benefactor #104

Offline Julien Abrahams

  • Posts: 473
  • Name: J. Abrahams
Re: Use of incorrect power steering fluid 65 deville
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2019, 03:10:21 AM »
Eperhaps a weird question, but is there any assistance at all? Is there a (big) difference in steering effort between when thee gine is running or not. From what you describe it sounds more that there is no assistance at al (wrong connection, (internal) leak, pump failure?).
1967 Cadillac Sedan De Ville HT
1969 Austin Healey Sprite
1979 Opel Kadett

Offline cadman56

  • Posts: 609
  • CLC Number: 5820
  • Name: Larry Blanchard
Re: Use of incorrect power steering fluid 65 deville
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2019, 09:12:11 AM »
Air still in the system?
1956 Cadillac Coupe deVille (sold)
1956 Cadillac Convertible (sold)
1956 Cadillac Eldorado Seville (sold)
1967 Cadillac Eldorado (sold)
1968 Cadillac Convertible (Sold)
1991 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham dElegance
Larry Blanchard CLC #5820

Offline johngmm7

  • Posts: 53
  • CLC Number: 28554
  • Name: JOHN GUY MEPHAM MOORE
Re: Use of incorrect power steering fluid 65 deville
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2019, 10:56:11 AM »
Thanks to all of you for your comments.  The thing is, everything is new - the pump, the box and both hoses.  I just hope to heck that the new box is not the culprit. Pump not quite so difficult.  I'm going to have another go at things today by replacing the fluid, even though it appears that fluid is not the problem, then bleeding. Can't believe this after having replaced everything.

Offline TJ Hopland

  • Posts: 10183
Re: Use of incorrect power steering fluid 65 deville
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2019, 11:04:41 AM »
I have not experienced or heard much about steering boxes causing issues like you describe.  Most of the time a bad rebuild or assembly on a box causes them to only have assist in one direction or or power themselves one direction. 

Pumps on the other hand its pretty common to hear stories about them having issues with both new and rebuilt ones. Not sure if its a parts quality thing or workmanship issue but it seems to happen fairly often. 

Are you cycling it with the front wheels off the ground?  That usually helps the bleeding process.   After you have driven or bleed how does the fluid look?   If its an air problem the fluid will be at least slightly foamy. 
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Offline fishnjim

  • Posts: 2416
  • Name: J. Bozin
Re: Use of incorrect power steering fluid 65 deville
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2019, 12:14:19 PM »
I'd definitely bleed all the air out before thinking the wrong fluid.  Unless you put wrong thing in there?   
There should be a bleed procedure in the manual, but if not, start up and slowly turn wheel clock to clock and observe the reservoir until no more bubbles. 
It's just a hydraulic pump and hydraulic driver connected by hose.   If any parts sat on the shelf could be some corrosion or something going on, but more likely if rebuilt, wasn't done so good.   
Otherwise, the suspension and steering linkage is next in line for hard steering inspection.   
The "new" PS fluid doesn't have dye in it, so you can better check source of leaks.   With everything red trans fluid, hard to tell where it came from.   All light mineral oils some additives.

Offline Jeff Rose CLC #28373

  • Posts: 2324
  • CLC Number: 28373
  • Name: Jeff Rose
Re: Use of incorrect power steering fluid 65 deville
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2019, 10:10:29 AM »
As asked above, are you getting anything at all?  I would first suggest checking the continuity of your fluid path. I had an issue with the 55 and it turned out to be a blockage in the new hose. It was noticeable because the pump became screeching hot because it was in full bypass all the time.  I am not positive about your system but maybe with the engine off, pull the return line and cycle the steering-- Does fluid easily squirt out of the return line when you turn the wheel?  Then go from there. You can also crack the pressure line when running (be safe of course) fluid should shoot across the garage.
Also, please do not be insulted by this question-- Were there any plastic packing plugs in the new box that may not have been removed? Sorry to ask but hey, we've all done it.
Jeff
« Last Edit: October 31, 2019, 10:14:39 AM by Jeff Rose CLC #28373 »
Jeff Rosansky
CLC #28373
1970 Coupe DeVille (Big Red)
1955 Series 62 (Baby Blue)
Dad's new 1979 Coupe DeVille

 

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