All Cads

Author Topic: Need rear bumper fillers for our '79 Seville - what's available?  (Read 1282 times)

Offline Gene Beaird

  • Posts: 1069
  • Name: Gene Beaird
Need rear bumper fillers for our '79 Seville - what's available?
« on: December 27, 2019, 12:14:32 PM »
As the Subject says, the rear bumper fillers on our 1979 Seville are starting to crumble.  It also looks like they may have also reacted with the paint, or visa versa, so the paint is wrinkled.  In my limited search, it appears there may be only one option here, although there are several different vendors.   

So what are my options today, and what's good, or more-importantly, what's to be avoided?  I know some fitting will probably be required, but even ill-fitting fillers will be better than none at all.  I probably need to get them sooner than later. 

On the plus side, the units on the car seem to have lasted a lot longer than the vinyl rear wheel 'spats' on our 1986 SVO.  Those simply dropped off the car while it was sitting in the shop one day (almost the same day) about 10 years ago.  They all still met the same end, though, which really sux!! 
Gene Beaird,
1968 Calais
1979 Seville
Pearland, Texas
CLC Member No. 29873

Offline SixDucks

  • Posts: 174
  • Name: T. Boone
Re: Need rear bumper fillers for our '79 Seville - what's available?
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2019, 07:04:51 PM »
Gene,

 Your BEST bet is to scour the internet for NOS parts or salvage yards for still intact OEM parts and have them 3D printed. It's really the only way to assure yourself that you will get factory fit and better than factory quality. This may prove to be a benefit for other Seville owners if the files are retained for additional orders.
 I've seen 1st hand some of the current offerings, and they are absolutely terrible. I recently stopped in to the body shop I use and spied a 1980 Commemorative Edition Seville that was in for replacement of all the rear fillers. I was able to see the parts before installation and afterwards. My bodyman stated that he had hours and hours in trying to make them fit properly. He and I agreed that it wasn't even close. He also swore he would NEVER do another set. Afterwards he stepped out to see my 88' Brougham and wanted to know where I obtained my left rear filler... It's an
OEM part that at some point will also fail.
 Last August I passed on a 74' Eldorado convertible because I disliked the quality of the replacement fillers.

 Hope this helps,

 Terry


Current:
1941 coupe
1962 Fleetwood
1988 Brougham
Previous:
1956 Series 62 Sedan
1963 Fleetwood
1975 Fleetwood Brougham D'Elegance
1989 Brougham

Offline Big Fins

  • Posts: 1802
  • CLC Number: 22631
  • Name: John Serio
Re: Need rear bumper fillers for our '79 Seville - what's available?
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2019, 09:43:58 AM »
I like Terry's idea of the 3D printing. The difference really shows if you read about the Eldorado restoration threads.

If not, this company has about the best that you are going to get in the re-pop world.

https://plasticpartsinc.com
Current:
1976 Eldorado Convertible in Crystal Blue FireMist with white interior and top.
1969 Fleetwood Brougham in Chalice Gold FireMist with matching interior and top.

Past and much missed:
1977 Brougham de Elegance
1976 Eldorado Convertible
1972 Fleetwood Brougham
1971 Sedan de Ville
1970 de Ville Convertible
1969 Sedan de Ville
1959 Sedan deVille

Offline Gene Beaird

  • Posts: 1069
  • Name: Gene Beaird
Re: Need rear bumper fillers for our '79 Seville - what's available?
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2019, 01:28:12 PM »
The pieces I have are already breaking up, and the outer surfaces are all wrinkled with bad paint, so these pieces are unlikely candidates for a scan for any reproduction, even if I had time and a scanner. 

I guess I'll search for NOS, and failing that, grab a repop set with the knowledge I'll be fitting the pieces before paint.  Sigh.

Gene Beaird,
1968 Calais
1979 Seville
Pearland, Texas
CLC Member No. 29873

Offline The Tassie Devil(le)

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 12395
  • CLC Number: 18992
  • Name: Bruce Reynolds
Re: Need rear bumper fillers for our '79 Seville - what's available?
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2019, 05:11:18 PM »
Has anyone ever thought of making these "Fillers" out of metal, as in panel steel?

Seems as though they would never ever get "bent" unless the vehicle was hit, and as most collector cars seem to be treated a lot different to the run-of-the-mill grocery-getters, I can't see this being a problem.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Offline SixDucks

  • Posts: 174
  • Name: T. Boone
Re: Need rear bumper fillers for our '79 Seville - what's available?
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2019, 06:57:18 PM »
Bruce,

  The 3D printer can print the same consistent quality repeatedly on demand and can be used for ANY parts that the printer is capable of printing. To make these from steel or cast plastic would require tooling and space for the tooling to produce the needed parts. The required equipment is likely to be able to produce only one specific part. The printer could likely print parts for fillers or any other needed parts for many different applications. The right printer can produce parts for a '74 Eldorado as well as a '79 Seville.

Terry
Current:
1941 coupe
1962 Fleetwood
1988 Brougham
Previous:
1956 Series 62 Sedan
1963 Fleetwood
1975 Fleetwood Brougham D'Elegance
1989 Brougham

Offline TJ Hopland

  • Posts: 10183
Re: Need rear bumper fillers for our '79 Seville - what's available?
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2019, 07:32:46 PM »
Considering how simple the shape is on some of them I would think metal would be a good option. 

I'm certainly no expert on 3d printers and don't own one but I have been following them fairly closely.  What is keeping me from buying one is to really start making things you have to be able to design them and that is where the real skill and expensive software comes in. 

Now that we know I really don't know what I am talking about I don't think that 3d printing would be a good route for these.  I have no doubt it could be done with outstanding results but I suspect what that would cost would make hiring a skilled craftsman to make them from metal would seem like a bargain.  A $300 diy PLA printer certainly won't do it and I suspect a $3000 one would not even get the desired results.

If you want to see some neat 3d prints look up the Rutherford rocket engine, many of its major components are 3d printed.   Its not some experimental process either, 9 successful launches to date with 9 engines on each rocket.   Pretty sure those printers and the people that run them could crank out some nice car parts but I suspect the printers didn't come from the hobby store and the people that run them are making a bit more than minimum wage.   
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Offline 76eldo

  • Posts: 6650
  • CLC Number: 22443
  • Name: Brian Rachlin
Re: Need rear bumper fillers for our '79 Seville - what's available?
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2019, 07:45:41 PM »
3 D printing is not a viable option for this part. Way too complicated and expensive plus you need a perfect part to scan to create a file.

They make these already in an ABS material. No need to reinvent the wheel.

Do some web searching and find a vendor that looks good.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
CLC # 22443
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

Offline Gene Beaird

  • Posts: 1069
  • Name: Gene Beaird
Re: Need rear bumper fillers for our '79 Seville - what's available?
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2020, 08:27:11 PM »
Yeah, at least one side is broken, and all that's holding it together is many layers of paint and the bumper.  Looking at the ABS units now. 
Gene Beaird,
1968 Calais
1979 Seville
Pearland, Texas
CLC Member No. 29873

Offline MaR

  • Posts: 983
  • Name: Mitchell Radford
Re: Need rear bumper fillers for our '79 Seville - what's available?
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2020, 12:36:14 AM »
3 D printing is not a viable option for this part. Way too complicated and expensive plus you need a perfect part to scan to create a file.

They make these already in an ABS material. No need to reinvent the wheel.

Do some web searching and find a vendor that looks good.

Brian

There is no such thing as a "way to complex part" for a 3D printer and as for expense, right now, a good 3D printed part will be equivalent in price to a poorly made fiberglass or ABS part once the cost of getting the poor parts fitted is accounted for. You would never scan an existing part to generate a model to print, even an NOS part is not good enough for that. To do it correctly, you would measure a good part and created a model from that. As most people have found, the reproductions that are currently for sale are poor compared to the actual parts. Here are two of the front fillers for my '74 Eldorado that I have 3D printed. The reproductions that are available are nothing like the actual parts.







« Last Edit: January 04, 2020, 12:56:26 AM by MaR »

Offline Glen

  • Posts: 2789
  • CLC Number: 727
  • Name: Glen Houlton
Re: Need rear bumper fillers for our '79 Seville - what's available?
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2020, 01:01:03 AM »
Is it possible to edit a scan?  Seems to me that editing a scan would be quicker than creating a file from scratch. 
Glen Houlton CLC #727 
CLCMRC benefactor #104

Offline 76eldo

  • Posts: 6650
  • CLC Number: 22443
  • Name: Brian Rachlin
Re: Need rear bumper fillers for our '79 Seville - what's available?
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2020, 10:21:16 AM »
I’ll stand by what I said.
You can take readily available parts and by doing some simple mods you can get them to fit.
I don’t know much about the 3D process but I do know 3 things.

1.  You need a good part to scan to generate a file for the printer.

2.  It would take many hours to “print” that part and the owners of these machines don’t do this stuff inexpensively.

3.  No one knows the longevity of the material that is used in this process.

It’s not like the parts are unavailable. I’ve put fillers on 76-79 Seville’s , numerous 76-78 Eldo’s
and 79-85 Eldo’s and Seville’s.  It’s not rocket science.

Here’s a web page I created www.sheffieldgarage.com/fillers.htm.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
CLC # 22443
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

Offline MaR

  • Posts: 983
  • Name: Mitchell Radford
Re: Need rear bumper fillers for our '79 Seville - what's available?
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2020, 11:10:30 AM »
I’ll stand by what I said.
You can take readily available parts and by doing some simple mods you can get them to fit.
I don’t know much about the 3D process but I do know 3 things.

1.  You need a good part to scan to generate a file for the printer.

2.  It would take many hours to “print” that part and the owners of these machines don’t do this stuff inexpensively.

3.  No one knows the longevity of the material that is used in this process.

It’s not like the parts are unavailable. I’ve put fillers on 76-79 Seville’s , numerous 76-78 Eldo’s
and 79-85 Eldo’s and Seville’s.  It’s not rocket science.

Here’s a web page I created www.sheffieldgarage.com/fillers.htm.

Brian
1) Suitable parts are easy to come by. I have found perfectly usable OEM specimens for every filler on my '74 Eldorado and once the part has been modeled, that's it, it's done.
2) There are many, many 3D printing services that print parts from your models. I have my parts printed at Shapeways and they are quite reasonable and offer many different materials. If I were willing to pay for it, I could even have them printed out of metal. For the prototypes, I use my own small 3D printer that I bought for under $200.
3) The materials are not a mystery, there are specification pages for each material and they are not some odd exotic stuff; the most common plastics are nylon and ABS.

Like I said before, there are fillers available but as you have seen, they don't fit very well and require modification to even remotely fit. I have also found that all the manufacturers have combined parts to fit a larger range. The rear fender extensions for the 74-78 Eldorados are a good example. There are two different fillers from those years and they are shaped differently but no manufacturer actually makes a differentiation between the two. I have both examples and when I'm finished modeling them, either style can be made on demand.

Offline MaR

  • Posts: 983
  • Name: Mitchell Radford
Re: Need rear bumper fillers for our '79 Seville - what's available?
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2020, 11:29:08 AM »
Is it possible to edit a scan?  Seems to me that editing a scan would be quicker than creating a file from scratch.
It is possible but it would frankly take longer to correct the model that it would to just create one from scratch. The best analogy I can come up with is building a house from scratch vs taking a 100 year old house and making everything plumb and square. Also, when you have a model made from scratch, you can much more easily take that model and make it into a different version. A good example of this is the ‘73 and ‘74 Eldorado headlight bucket to bumper trim. They are almost the same with the exception of where the filler meets the inner chrome trim. It’s different on either model year and modifying one years model to fit the other year is trivial on a scratch built model.

Offline SixDucks

  • Posts: 174
  • Name: T. Boone
Re: Need rear bumper fillers for our '79 Seville - what's available?
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2020, 02:02:27 PM »
I've been doing a little research on 3D printing and I'm certain that this technology can also be utilized to print EXACT duplicates of the rubber floor mats that are often missing or damaged. The 70's Eldorados come to mind.
 Does anyone know if 3D printing is possible for lenses?

 Terry
Current:
1941 coupe
1962 Fleetwood
1988 Brougham
Previous:
1956 Series 62 Sedan
1963 Fleetwood
1975 Fleetwood Brougham D'Elegance
1989 Brougham

Offline TJ Hopland

  • Posts: 10183
Re: Need rear bumper fillers for our '79 Seville - what's available?
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2020, 03:42:19 PM »
I have seen videos of people printing things like tail lights.  I have not seen them in person but on the videos they look decent, maybe not as good as the originals did when they were new but certainly better than an old faded cracked one. I'm not sure if the translucent materials are the types that can be done on basic printers of if you need a higher end one.  Also don't know how the material holds up to things like UV light.  UV and huge temp swings are not likely a big deal for collector cars that spend 99% of their times indoors. 

There are a few flexible materials now.   A floor mat is an interesting idea.  Have people done it and used them or are they just a for show thing?   I would think they would be somewhat expensive because of the size.   Uses a lot of material and requires a larger than typical consumer machine.   

There are machines now under $300 that can do high quality prints with multiple (but not all available) materials but the catch is they can only do maybe 4"x 4"x 4".   The 12 x 12 x 12's are not bad but you will notice a huge range in prices from maybe $600-$2000.   3d printers don't scale as easily as you would think.   Sure the print head could be the same as the small one and the motors that move things could be the same but keeping the precision and accuracy as things get bigger is where the expense comes in.   Same motors will take longer to accelerate the larger mass and not be able to stop it as precisely so to keep the quality you need a motor that can keep the larger mass in control which means better belts or gears which means better this and better that so all the sudden you have a $10k plus professional machine.
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Offline SixDucks

  • Posts: 174
  • Name: T. Boone
Re: Need rear bumper fillers for our '79 Seville - what's available?
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2020, 04:23:05 PM »
Hi TJ,

 I agree with you on the prohibitive cost of a printer large enough to print Eldorado floor and trunk mats. However as this technology becomes more common it seems likely this could be farmed out.
 At some point I'll likely purchase a '74 Eldorado as well as a '74-76 Fleetwood Brougham or Talisman, that likely will need fillers. At that time perhaps I will can work with a supplier already familiar with the parts I'll be needing.

 Terry 
 
« Last Edit: January 04, 2020, 04:24:38 PM by SixDucks »
Current:
1941 coupe
1962 Fleetwood
1988 Brougham
Previous:
1956 Series 62 Sedan
1963 Fleetwood
1975 Fleetwood Brougham D'Elegance
1989 Brougham

Offline M. Bankes

  • Posts: 382
Re: Need rear bumper fillers for our '79 Seville - what's available?
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2020, 07:30:20 PM »
Hi
This has been a really interested thread. I have been trying to figure out how to 3D print these fillers and would really like to know more. Can you tell me more about how to create the files ?
Thanks
Michael

Offline MaR

  • Posts: 983
  • Name: Mitchell Radford
Re: Need rear bumper fillers for our '79 Seville - what's available?
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2020, 08:35:29 PM »
Hi
This has been a really interested thread. I have been trying to figure out how to 3D print these fillers and would really like to know more. Can you tell me more about how to create the files ?
Thanks
Michael
I use Solidworks to make the solid models. I will start out with either an NOS filler or a good used OEM one and then start laying it out. I will usually lay out the general profile by tracing the starting shape on a piece of 1/4" square graph paper so I can get a base shape and then from there I will measure the filler with digital calipers for the finer features. Along the way, I will 3D print various profiles to verify the fitment of the filler to the part of the car it is attached to. Once I have a good model, I will make a full 3D printed prototype for full verification of the fit and shape of the filler. After I'm happy with that, I will have it professionally printed by a 3D printing service out of a material that is suitable for painting.

Offline MaR

  • Posts: 983
  • Name: Mitchell Radford
Re: Need rear bumper fillers for our '79 Seville - what's available?
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2020, 09:11:33 PM »
Here is my layout drawing for one of the fillers. The gray filler is the NOS filler I used as a reference.





Here are various prototypes sections I printed to check for fit:






Here is the NOS part next to the professionally printed part:






Here it is painted:






And here it is installed on the headlight housing it mounts to:


 

Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13