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Starter Heat Soak; 1970 DVC

Started by Brubaker, January 31, 2020, 09:04:34 AM

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Brubaker

Hello Everyone.

RE: Starter Heat Soak; 1970 DVC.

Read through posts on this forum and other sources.  I don't want to stuff fiberglass between the starter and the engine and would rather solve the problem with a "new starter" than a shield.  I don't show my car (I just drive it for fun!), so I'm not worried about losing points because the starter isn't original.

Does anyone have experience with Powermaster Starters, specifically their "XS Torque" series which has higher torque than standard and claims to resolve issues with Heat Soak?  Would simply installing this starter solve the Heat Soak problem?

Any thoughts or real-world experience would be appreciated from this always-outstanding forum!

76eldo

There is nothing inherently wrong with the design of your starter.  Most of the time when starters get rebuilt they get new brushes and bearings and get the armature cleaned up.  The problem you may be having is with the field coils.  They get old and the resistance goes up.  If you get a properly rebuilt starter with new field coils you probably won't have a problem.

Remember, these were GM's best cars and when new, were driven every day including hot starts with the AC engaged in the July heat.  They didn't fail then and shouldn't fail now.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

Brubaker

Brian, thanks for the quick reply.  Your comments -- and some related comments from Scot Minesinger on another post -- have convinced me to have my original starter rebuilt locally.  Whenever I encounter a problem with my car, my first thought is "how can I fix/improve this with modern technology".  Then someone (like you) reminds me that " . . . these were GM's best cars . . . .  They didn't fail then and shouldn't fail now."  I need to keep reminding myself of that and realize that age has a way of affecting all of us (including our cars!).  Thanks Again.

wrefakis

Back in the day we would put in "hi torque" starters as 68 for sure and to lesser extant 69/70 could sometimes need extra cranking power also important to have good contacts and highest CCA battery you can find
70 was best of bunch

Scot Minesinger

There is a heat shield on every 1970 Cadillac from the factory between the exhaust manifold and the solenoid/starter body.  The starter is mounted with three bolts, two near the flywheel, one at the other end with a small strap bolted to the block.  In replacing the starters, I notice that the heat shield is almost always missing and so is the single bolt mount opposite the flywheel.  Usually a starter replacement involves making a heat shield and starter to block front strap and installing it.

My 1970 Cadillacs have run in 100'F sunny weather and they always start without hesitation from the starter.  If you omit the heat shield then you have to wait for the starter to cool off. 

The starters from auto parts stores are generally OK, but if you want a real good one, get a core re-built locally by a high quality shop.  That will further reduce any chance of the heat soak

Thanks,

Scot
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

"Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364

ALMOST without exception, when a relatively new starter bogs down after heat soak it is because the starters not the correct "high torque"version with the longer field coils and armature.  Parts store rebuilts are typically the shorter "Chevrolet" style.
What is listed as a high torque starter is actually the ONLY one that is correct.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/cadillac,1970,deville,7.7l+472cid+v8,1025378,electrical,starter+motor,4152

A power master is a great starter, I use one on my hot rod with 10.5:1 compression, but for a stock motor (just use the correct starter and heat soak should not be a problem.
Greg Surfas
Cadillac Kid-Greg Surfas
Director Modified Chapter CLC
CLC #15364
66 Coupe deVille (now gone to the UK)
72 Eldo Cpe  (now cruising the sands in Quatar)
73 Coupe deVille
75 Coupe deElegance
76 Coupe deVille
79 Coupe de ville with "Paris" (pick up) option and 472 motor
514 inch motor now in '73-

chrisntam

When I went through my engine rebuild in '14, I got a Delco rebuilt unit and I upped the gauge of my cables to 0 or 00, I can't recall.  I can recall that the cables are thick and marginally difficult to bend, but they're bent, installed and I have had no issues what so ever or whatsoever.  Biggest CCA battery that fits in the space too.  Nary a hint of a hot start issue.  Make sure all your connections are clean and tight.  I bought a heat shield starter wrap, never did install it.
1970 Deville Convertible 
Dallas, Texas

cadillacmike68

Quote from: Scot Minesinger on January 31, 2020, 11:09:32 AM
There is a heat shield on every 1970 Cadillac from the factory between the exhaust manifold and the solenoid/starter body.  The starter is mounted with three bolts, two near the flywheel, one at the other end with a small strap bolted to the block.  In replacing the starters, I notice that the heat shield is almost always missing and so is the single bolt mount opposite the flywheel.  Usually a starter replacement involves making a heat shield and starter to block front strap and installing it.

My 1970 Cadillacs have run in 100'F sunny weather and they always start without hesitation from the starter.  If you omit the heat shield then you have to wait for the starter to cool off. 

The starters from auto parts stores are generally OK, but if you want a real good one, get a core re-built locally by a high quality shop.  That will further reduce any chance of the heat soak

Thanks,

Scot

Scot,  Any pics of that heat shield?
Regards,
"Cadillac" Mike

Roger Zimmermann

Check also the cable which is coming from the battery. It's exposed to heat and can corrode inside of the insulation. A friend of mine had his car towed many times until, almost by accident, he had the idea to check this cable. Once the plus cable was replaced, no more towing.
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101