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Author Topic: Cadillac EVs?  (Read 503 times)

Offline fishnjim

  • Posts: 2431
  • Name: J. Bozin
Cadillac EVs?
« on: January 27, 2020, 09:42:52 PM »
This first came out as a story for China, so they could meet imposed Chinese regs to sell autos there.  Which I can see as a rational move for maintaining/greater sales. 
I see GM just announced >$2B investment in Detroit for EV production.   
But where are the sales*?   If you look at the major competition, their vehicle sales have hit saturation in US and only the global market is growing.   They have several production sites on line now, so will quickly saturate a niche market.
So I question the strategy of chasing a market that may not exist?   Some candidates have even professed making them "mandatory" but a certain date.   When has that ever worked?   Did we learn that lesson in prohibition?   Or have we all forgot or aren't old enough to learn from history.
I think a lot of people are going to wake up some day, and say why did I buy an EV?  I call it the "shock" of owning an EV.   Right now it's more a herd move.   Battery safety(fires), battery supply, lack of charging, increase in emissions form making electric, and a few other major issues have gone on unresolved, not even discussed at this point.   Hybrid technology is still the most efficient so it's also a move to second best.
* - they're announcing ev-trucks?   The battery range is just not comparable to liquid fuels?   GM also failed miserably in the previous attempts.   That why they delegated to Cadillac in China.   So are we in for another Roger Smith era?

Offline Big Apple Caddy

  • Posts: 1332
  • Name: R. Langley
Re: Cadillac EVs?
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2020, 10:21:24 AM »
While GM currently expects to have "most Cadillacs" be electric by 2030, it may not happen and presumably they will adjust plans according to changes in the marketplace.  Back in the 1970s (the Thomas Murphy era), GM had high hopes for diesel engines but it didn't pan out.  Will EVs be GM's diesels of the 1970s-80s or a success for the company?  Time will tell but If the EV market turns out to be less than expected, this will not only impact GM/Cadillac but many other companies investing heavily in that space both here and abroad.

Offline R S Steven

  • Posts: 81
  • Name: R Steven
Re: Cadillac EVs?
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2020, 06:23:36 PM »
There are some predict out there that there'll be 1.4 million EV's sitting on dealers lots come 2024.  They claim that EV's capacity will be much larger than demand.  With their price, limited driving distance and the time it takes to recharge them, these prediction may be correct.

Bill Young

  • Guest
Re: Cadillac EVs?
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2020, 10:23:45 PM »
In my humble opinion Spending so many thousands to buy a car that saves you a thousand dollars a year buying gasoline is like burning down a house to roast a marshmello . GM built the Chevy Volt that cost about the same as a Hemi Dodge Challenger , how'd that work out for ya.

Offline wrench

  • Posts: 999
  • CLC Number: 27930
  • Name: Jim Cullen
Re: Cadillac EVs?
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2020, 12:05:31 AM »
GM had high hopes for diesel engines but it didn't pan out.  Will EVs be GM's diesels of the 1970s-80s

Interesting point, Can GM get EVs right? The diesel debacle indicates the path is fraught with disaster if not navigated properly.

I could do a set of head gaskets in a day on my old 5.7. I have to say that it ran like a locomotive until the head gasket went. I might even still have the injection pump wrench somewhere. Can you say ‘Roosamaster’? sure you can...

In a related matter, how much has GM spent on autonomous vehicles as we enter the era of realization that it won’t work, and could it be possible that the heyday of EVs may be a lot further in the distance for the investments of today to pay off?

1951 Series 62 Sedan
1969 Eldorado
1970 Eldorado (Triple Black w/power roof)
1958 Apache 3/4 ton 4x4
2005 F250
2014 FLHP
2014 SRX

Re: Cadillac EVs?
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2020, 12:59:26 AM »
The key for EV's being "ready for prime time" is
the battery system that will power them.

As we have discussed many times here, the
Lithium Ion battery leaves a lot to be desired for
many reasons.  I won't rehash this again here.

However, until a breakthrough arrives with better
properties (ease of fast charging, adequate
range between charges, safety, lighter weight,
more favorable environmental impact, etc.) the
electric car will never be a major player. 

The reports of the petroleum powered engine's
demise by 2030 (per GM) are a fantasy at best.

Remember that the sales of every Chevy Volt
were only made possible by heavy government
subsidies.  This is not the solution.

1955 Cadillac Eldorado
1973 Cadillac Eldorado
1995 Cadillac Seville
2004 Escalade
1997 GMC Suburban 4X4, 454 engine, 3/4 ton
custom built by Santa Fe in Evansville, IN
2011 Buick Lucerne CX
CLCMRC Museum Benefactor #38
Past: VP International Affiliates, Museum Board Director, President / Director Pittsburgh Region

Offline The Tassie Devil(le)

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  • Posts: 12412
  • CLC Number: 18992
  • Name: Bruce Reynolds
Re: Cadillac EVs?
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2020, 01:51:51 AM »
Don't forget that all the first Chev Electric cars were not sold, but leased.

GM got them all back, even though some owners were vehemently opposed to returning them, but as GM had the contracts, they couldn't get out of them.

Then GM crushed all, and from what I hear, only one is left in the Petersen Museum collection, and will never be allowed to drive on the roads again.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Re: Cadillac EVs?
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2020, 12:23:23 PM »
Just a little item here for thought. I recently noticed that on "garbage days" the trucks were quieter. Then over the weekend coming back into town I noticed the yard where the trucks are kept, and noticed the network of electrical cables going to each of the trucks. It seems that one of the trash collector companies has gone to electrified trucks. Perfect application,daily short routes and back to a central location at the end of work for charging.  There has been GREAT progress in the field of heavy vehicle electrical and fuel cell locomotion, and even without any subsidies they are economically viable.
Very few of us have only one car, and I would guess one of those cars sees mostly in city short trip driving.
There are a lot of scenarios where electric vehicles fit the desired usage profile, and they will be purchased as such.
In post after post we complain about the direction Cadillac is going, but face it, we are not the target demographics for Cadillac, or perhaps ANY manufacturer. 
Just my 1-1/2 cents worth and worth every penny.
Greg Surfas
Cadillac Kid-Greg Surfas
Director Modified Chapter CLC
CLC #15364
66 Coupe deVille (now gone to the UK)
72 Eldo Cpe  (now cruising the sands in Quatar)
73 Coupe deVille
75 Coupe deElegance
76 Coupe deVille
79 Coupe de ville with "Paris" (pick up) option and 472 motor
514 inch motor now in '73-

Offline wrench

  • Posts: 999
  • CLC Number: 27930
  • Name: Jim Cullen
Re: Cadillac EVs?
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2020, 01:08:54 PM »
$6 million Electric Fire Truck

Plus, I haven’t been in any target demographic in 25 years.

Well, except for assisted living and cremation.
1951 Series 62 Sedan
1969 Eldorado
1970 Eldorado (Triple Black w/power roof)
1958 Apache 3/4 ton 4x4
2005 F250
2014 FLHP
2014 SRX

Offline Anderson

  • Posts: 142
  • Name: W.C. Dunn
Re: Cadillac EVs?
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2020, 09:30:49 AM »
My suspicion is that GM will have EV entries into most segments by 2030 (or announced in the ensuing year or two), and will probably have all vehicles up to at least being hybrids.  "All electric", on the other hand, isn't likely for a while.

One thing I'd note is that electric conversions of already-heavy vehicles (buses, garbage trucks, etc.) that don't have particularly long routes seems quite feasible.  On the bus front, there's the added fact that even where you have all-day service (say, 0500-0000) there are often peaks of service (0700-0900, 1600-1800) that mean you're almost inherently able to cycle vehicles to at least some extent (since a good chunk of the fleet is idled off-peak regardless).

School buses are a decent example here: You do three runs in the morning (perhaps 0615-0915), park the bus, and then most days you start up again around 1415.  That five hours should get you most of a charge.  Presuming that your run is <20 miles each time, 100 miles of range should "cut it".  The main policy tradeoff would be restrictions on the number of reduced-hour days (presuming you *need* the midday charge), but...well, at least in high school I remember those were a PITA for the school to administer (since reducing class periods down under half an hour really limited what could be done).

I'm nominally in a target demographic (I'm in my 30s); I just simply do not have the tastes or interests that I "should" and it tends to mean that a LOT of marketing totally misfires on me.

(This also reminds me of a recent article about Jeff Bezos pledging $10bn to various environmental groups, and thinking that he'd be better off fighting to forcibly standardize chargers and then putting the rest of that $10bn into seriously increasing the availability of public charging spots.)


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