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52 cdv ignition housing

Started by Omarine, February 22, 2020, 11:21:44 AM

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Omarine

Hello all,

Trying to pull ignition switch out to clean it. I see the two screws that hold the steel panel at the bottom but what else is holding it on?

Thanks all
1949 Harley Davidson FL
1952 Cadillac Coupe de Ville
1961 Chevy Impala 2 dr hardtop

Omarine

so no one here has had to remove the key switch? i was hoping to avoid dropping the instrument cluster...thanks again

1949 Harley Davidson FL
1952 Cadillac Coupe de Ville
1961 Chevy Impala 2 dr hardtop

Cadman-iac

Oscar, are you referring to what actually holds the switch in place,  or what you have to remove in order to get to it?
If it's anything like the '56, there's a retaining ring that screws onto the switch from the front or the key side. It's usually got either two or three small grooves in it that are engaged with a special tool to unscrew it.
You can make one from an old socket by grinding away the top edges and just leaving the two or three small tabs sticking out. Start by measuring the diameter of the ring to get the size of socket you would need.
As for a panel with screws, I don't know what to tell you.  A '56 doesn't have one under the dash.
Be patient,  someone who has experience with this will answer.  Alot of members still work and may not have the time to look at the forum until after work.

But I hope this helps a little.
Rick
CLC# 32373
1956 Coupe Deville A/C car "Norma Jean"

Omarine

Hello Rick -

thanks for that info, it does help quite a bit - I will look closer at the outside ring you describe.  I tried releasing it from the back, and that didn't work.  the key switch and cigarette lighter are both on this steel panel that I thought would come off easily, but even after the two bottom screws are removed, some tab or lock or something holds it in on the right side of the steering column.

car is out of reach M-F so it's always a weekend rush to try to squeeze everything in...

cheers
oscar
1949 Harley Davidson FL
1952 Cadillac Coupe de Ville
1961 Chevy Impala 2 dr hardtop

J. Gomez

Oscar,

I’m not familiar with your vintage car cluster panel removal, so you may need to consult your Service Manual for details or maybe someone here can chime in.

Not sure if you may need to card for the transmission shift lever indicator, I know for the ’56 one would need to remove the indicator from the steering shaft column before the panel is pulled out, as the indicator needle is inside the cluster.

Good luck..!
J. Gomez
CLC #23082

Omarine

Hello J, thanks for the comment.  Ive looked in the service manual as well as the fisher body manual and haven’t found how to remove just that one panel with the vertical ribs on it. Seems like it should be simple but few things ever are.

Cheers
1949 Harley Davidson FL
1952 Cadillac Coupe de Ville
1961 Chevy Impala 2 dr hardtop

Cadman-iac

Oscar,  after looking at the picture Jose posted, I don't believe you need to remove that panel. The switch is in the same basic location as the '56 is, and if it's got the ring on the front of it, once you remove it,  the switch is free to  be dropped from behind the dash where you can get to the wiring and take it out completely. That panel looks to be just a garnish molding for looks only.
If I'm right, the switch passes through both the molding and the metal of the dash panel.
Check for that retainer ring, it should have 2 or possibly 3 small slots in the very front face, meaning facing the driver.
I made a tool to remove mine from an old socket. It's easy enough to do,  you just need to be sure you have the right spacing on the tabs when you file or grind it down.
If that's not something you want to do,  I believe that a tool is available for that from OPGI, and maybe other suppliers as well.

Rick
CLC# 32373
1956 Coupe Deville A/C car "Norma Jean"

Bob Hoffmann CLC#96

I think you have to remove the key cylinder before the ring will come off.
1968 Eldorado slick top ,white/red interior
2015 Holden Ute HSV Maloo red/black interior.
             
Too much fun is more than you can have.

Cadman-iac

Quote from: Bob Hoffmann CLC#96 on February 25, 2020, 07:27:41 PM
I think you have to remove the key cylinder before the ring will come off.
That may be true for the 52, I don't know for sure.  I know that the 55 and the 56 retainer will come off with the lock still in place as I've done it myself.

However, if the 52 won't come off with the lock cylinder in place,  you can remove it by inserting the key, turn it to the accessory position,  then insert a small wire, like a paperclip,  into that small hole in the lock cylinder chrome cover.

What that does is depress a spring loaded stop that prevents the cylinder from turning too far and coming out of the switch.

Once you depress the stop, turn the key farther counterclockwise and then pull it straight out towards you.

After the cylinder is removed,  the retainer ring will turn off easily.

To install the cylinder, just line up
the tab on the bottom end of the cylinder with the corresponding slot in the switch itself, press it into the switch and turn it clockwise.
Then to be sure that it is in place correctly,  try turning it back to the accessory position and see if it will pull back out. It should stay in place.
If it does happen to come back out,  check that the spring loaded retainer pin is free to move up and down. The only reason the cylinder would not stay in is if that pin is stuck down, allowing the cylinder to turn to the removable position.

Rick
CLC# 32373
1956 Coupe Deville A/C car "Norma Jean"

Omarine

Hello Rick, Bob,

Thanks for the insight, i think that’s going to work.  Will give it a try, seems like the manual should explain this, but i haven't found it. I think cleaning those terminals and the neutral saftey switch will get rid of the starter issues im having. The starter and solenoid check out fine.

Regards
Oscar
1949 Harley Davidson FL
1952 Cadillac Coupe de Ville
1961 Chevy Impala 2 dr hardtop

Brett S

Both of these Ignition threads came at a great time. I'm getting ready to remove mine because 1. I don't have the keys 2.  I'm replacing the wiring.
How would I remove the ignition if I don't have the key to turn the cylinder? I read both threads about using the paper clip but they both say about using the key also.

Thanks
Brett Samanns

Omarine

hello Brett- I am not near my car, but if you can see the threaded bezel ring with the indents for a tool, you might be able to thread it out.

I was trying the more difficult way (no surprise there), of removing the steel panel that holds the key switch and cigarette lighter.  there are two screws on the bottom - super easy - but then there is a nut or screw, cant tell, next to the steering column that is hard to reach laying on your head looking up behind the dash.  I didn't want to drop the whole cluster to access this...
1949 Harley Davidson FL
1952 Cadillac Coupe de Ville
1961 Chevy Impala 2 dr hardtop

Brett S

Hey Oscar, I'm going to try to remove that panel also. I don't have the front seat in the car so I'm hoping I can get under there.
Hopefully the ignition will come out without the key. I'll try the paper clip.
Brett Samanns

Cadman-iac

#13
Brett,
Are you wanting to remove the whole switch assembly, or just the cylinder?
Unfortunately I don't know how you can remove the cylinder itself without a key if you are wanting to reuse it. Because it has to turn in order to get to the correct position to come out, the key is a must have item.
To do this without a  key,  you would need to ask a locksmith about that.
Now if you have a new cylinder and don't care about the old one,  it's possible to remove it by drilling it out,  and removing the chrome face cover to access the retainer pin. The cylinder tumblers are what keeps a small bar from retracting so it can rotate in the switch. When the key is inserted,  it moves the tumblers and that bar is pulled inward and the cylinder can then be turned.
There's also one or two tabs on the cylinder itself that have to be lined up with a slot in the switch in order for it to be removed. That push pin retainer is what stops the cylinder from being turned far enough on it's own to line up and come out.
To get it done without the key, the tumblers have to be destroyed by drilling them.  Unfortunately there's no guarantee that you will get them out enough for the bar to be moved and allow what's left to be turned and removed.

If you are not in a hurry,  I have several ignition switches without keys, (not necessarily Cadillac ones, but they are GM switches), and I will attempt this and document it so that you can see what is involved, what to expect, and what could go wrong.
But I won't attempt it unless you want to try it yourself. Just let me know and I'll get back to you with the results.

Rick
CLC# 32373
1956 Coupe Deville A/C car "Norma Jean"

Brett S

Richard, I think it might just be easier to replace the whole switch assembly. I have found a couple on line that I can replace it with.  And they come with keys. I think that's the route I want to go.
Brett Samanns

Cadman-iac

#15
If there's one available, yes, it's definitely much easier to replace it than to try and repair it,  and especially so if you don't have a key.
Good luck,  and enjoy the ride!
Rick

PS: Since you will then have a key to remove the cylinder with, you can either have it re-keyed to match your doors, or have the doors re-keyed to match your new ignition.
Or if it doesn't matter to you, just use two keys. But at least you now have an option.
CLC# 32373
1956 Coupe Deville A/C car "Norma Jean"

spolij

#16
Oscar   here's what my shop manual says about removing the tumbler in a 66 Deville.
Remove ignition switch lock cylinder from switch housing using a .035 inch diameter wire (paperclip) to depress tumbler pin while turning the ignition key to the left from accessory position and pulling outward.

Bret   Look for locksmith tools on the internet. If it doesn't mention  car locks call the company.
Locksmiths also drill out the tumblers.   Last option