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1953 ignition switch - stuck! UPDATE

Started by G Pennington, February 25, 2020, 07:57:22 PM

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G Pennington

I was getting ready to put my dash back together and decided to check out the ignition switch.  Key went in ok, switched to RUN and START positions ok, but when I switched it into the ASSY it stuck in that position now I can't get the key out!   Only have the one key - don't want to destroy it - and can't find anything in the shop manual.
Thought I would ask here if somebody has solved a similar problem or has any advice before I do something stupid.
Gary Pennington
   1953 6267X Convertible
   1941 6267D Convertible (2 door)

Lexi

#1
If the same as my Caddy, unfold a paper clip and stick the end into that tiny hole near the key way. Hold to depress an internal spring and wiggle/push the key back and forth, up and down, etc. That is designed to remove the cylinder. If your key is stuck I am not sure if that will complicate things, BUT if you can at least remove the cylinder (with the key), you can then service the unit on the bench. That makes things easier. It may also give the key some incentive to let go in the process. If not, then soak the unit in penetrant, remove and play with it. It might come out. I had some stuck and thought they would not let go but they eventually did. Might be best to change the cylinder and/or have another key to use rather than risk a repeat performance. If you can't get the cylinder out, carefully use a tiny-tiny slot screwdriver and place it in those notched areas in the ignition switch lock cylinder retainer ring and tap it counter clockwise to loosen and remove. Yes, there is a tool designed for this, but I assume you don't have it. Screwdriver works well. Light taps and don't scratch your dash with over zealous work here, (assume unit is still in your car). With battery disconnected you can now safely remove the entire unit, unplug the wires at back, and take it to the bench for further work such as a soaking in a penetrating fluid. Good luck. Clay/Lexi

G Pennington

Thanks, Lexi.  Got the retaining ring off.  Will try the paperclip trick tomorrow.  If no-go, will soak everything with WD40 and try again.  Getting a new key made is on the list
Gary Pennington
   1953 6267X Convertible
   1941 6267D Convertible (2 door)

spolij

I would leave the ring on. I believe the whole switch will rotate when you turn the key. The tumbler on my 66 came out with the ring on.

Lexi

#4
I think John is correct that the cylinder can be removed independent of the entire switch body. I only suggested to remove the retainer ring if the cylinder with the stuck key won't come out. In that event the entire ignition switch should be removed and taken to the bench for service. I had the odd cylinder where that push pin release failed to operate properly. To remove the cylinder, it will probably be easier if you had left the retainer ring in place to keep the switch assembly from moving, (as you attempt to rotate and unlock the cylinder). Also, mark your wires so easy to re-install. Can't remember if yours are screw on or a push connector type. Clay/Lexi

Edit: If you remove the entire switch assembly, off chance there is an illuminated key way housing on top of it, though think that came a little later ('56?). If you do have that, they can be problematic to re-install especially if in the past someone had bent it. Sometimes wrapping electrical tape around holds it in place long enough to get it all back together properly. Don't think they had them in '53, but mention just in case.

Omarine

this post comes just as i too need the info.  on a 52, they are screw on terminals -which is what i was attempting to clean, but couldn't get key switch out. 

after the key issue is resolved, it would also be a good time to clean the terminals on the back.  I use a dremel tool with the mini wire wheel and electronic cleaner.  then the neutral safety switch too.  I say all this because even though my starter is rebuilt, well grounded and the end plate too, with thick positive cable, and the solenoid is new, I've got the "clicks" when trying to crank the car over.  Basically, the connection works when it feels like it - no rhyme or reason. 

thanks for the pic too, i now see that tab on the left that was holding the key panel in even after i removed the two bottom screws....

cheers
1949 Harley Davidson FL
1952 Cadillac Coupe de Ville
1961 Chevy Impala 2 dr hardtop

Lexi

Yes, good advice. When removed for servicing that is the time to dremel clean those terminals. It is also not uncommon for the switch housing internal contacts, (the ones you cannot see), to corrode. I went through 3 switches on my '56 for that reason. They would arc internally and sometimes my car would not start, (no crank no start situation). Occasionally I would get the odd "click" when turning the key. Wiggling the key would sometimes help, but letting it sit and cool off (was heating up internally) fixed it until the next time. Clay/Lexi

spolij

Gary   here's what my shop manual says about removing the tumbler in a 66 Deville.
Remove ignition switch lock cylinder from switch housing using a .035 inch diameter wire (paperclip) to depress tumbler pin while turning the ignition key to the left from accessory position and pulling outward.

Omarine

thanks Clay/Lexi I hadn't even thought of the internals.  I will also install a backup starter circuit using a horn button in case my switch decides to act up.  My threshold for waiting on some finicky connection is pretty low these days...

cheers
oscar
1949 Harley Davidson FL
1952 Cadillac Coupe de Ville
1961 Chevy Impala 2 dr hardtop

G Pennington

Tried the paperclip in the small hole trick and was able to rotate key and cylinder CCW about 5 degrees and pull the cylinder out.  Now the key comes out no problem.  Used dry graphite lube to loosen everything up, put it back together, and it works OK.
Many thanks to all for the help.  This is a great forum!
Gary Pennington
   1953 6267X Convertible
   1941 6267D Convertible (2 door)

Lexi

Yes it is a great Forum, and thank you for the update! It is always nice to get good news. Clay/Lexi

Cadman-iac

Good! Another lock cylinder saved!
I'm glad it all turned out well.  And yes, I love this forum.  Lots of people who have lots of experience and knowledge,  but most importantly,  they're willing to share it with the rest of us.
Enjoy that ride now!

Rick
CLC# 32373
1956 Coupe Deville A/C car "Norma Jean"

Lexi

#12
Yepper Cadman-iac (Rick). We gotta share and help each other out. One more thing I will mention, for what its worth, is what happened when I cleaned my internally arced and ruined, switch. I actually saw it arc at the back where the connectors are, when I had it out in my hand, (and working the key). I was running tests and looking for visuals and anything remarkable. After seeing the sparks I soaked it with penetrating fluid and solvent, which promptly came pouring back out, all blackish & soot like. Seems it cleaned up remnants of the damage that the internal, (unseen) arcing had done. I seem to recall that it passed a (no load) continuity check, but it only malfunctioned when it heated up in the real world, under use when in the car. Sometimes driving I remember that the area around the key-way was borderline 'hot' to touch. Not good. Not relevant now to Gary as he seems to have resolved his problem, but down the road someone else with a similar issue may like to read this. Hence this post. I am also told by another member that if you are careful, you can carefully pry apart the switch with a view to rebuilding it. Might be worth a shot as I don't think the repro switches currently available are identical matches. They may also cause grief if you have to change out your original connector ends to retro fit to a new switch. That can be a most unpleasant job, (been there, done that to).  :'(   Clay/Lexi

Cadman-iac

Yes that's true Clay. I don't know all I need to to get mine back on the road, so that's where this forum comes in very handy.

   I've taken apart a few of these ignition switches though. It's a delicate piece being made of pot metal. But if you're careful when you pry up the crimped edges you can generally re-crimp it and get it to work. It all depends on what you have to start with. I've had one just disintegrate on me because it was so corroded and so thin.
Very good points though Clay. It can look perfect on the outside and be a burnt pile of junk on the inside.

  After you have one apart and ready to go back together, one thing that you need to do is make sure you press the contact part down into the housing and be sure it seats before you try to crimp it back in place  or it will be loose in the housing and just cause more problems later. Because it's got springs pushing on the contacts,  it will try to push the backing piece up as you crimp it, and you usually only get one chance at this before the housing tabs will break. Unfortunately they weren't meant to be repaired, but it is possible if you're careful with it,  and providing the internals aren't fried beyond repair.

Hopefully this information will be of help to someone in the future. I wish I had someone like you Clay to tell me how to do some of this stuff years ago.  If I had, there would be more parts in the working pile than in the scrap pile.
But now I guess it's my turn to pass on  what I've learned, (or didn't), over the years. Thanks for listening,
Rick
CLC# 32373
1956 Coupe Deville A/C car "Norma Jean"

Lexi

#14
Rick very interesting comments. I have never had one apart, hence my interest in your post. There are a lot of members with more experience than myself, on this Forum. I just fumble my way through a project. As my life unfolds, it seems that its purpose is to continually re-assert the reality of "Murphy's Law", one project at a time! Clay/Lexi

chrisntam

If you hurry, you can bring the '53 to Overland Park in June.

8)
1970 Deville Convertible 
Dallas, Texas

Cadman-iac

If I have the opportunity to do another one, I'll be sure to get pictures of it as I do it. The hardest part of the whole thing is just getting into it without breaking off the tabs, and the second hardest thing is getting it crimped back together without breaking the tabs.
The rest is easy. And unless there's damage to the internal pieces,  all they usually need is a good cleaning. A small wire brush taken to the metal contacts so you get a good connection and it's ready to reassemble. Just put a little grease in it to help prevent corrosion and to lubricate it. It also helps to dissipate some heat that might build up in it if you have a circuit with a heavy draw on it.
   The nice thing about these switches in the 50's is that most all of the GM vehicles had the same basic switch.  There may be some external differences,  but if it's got the terminals in the same place, the internal pieces are the same as the Cadillac switch if you need parts for one.

Rick
CLC# 32373
1956 Coupe Deville A/C car "Norma Jean"

Lexi

#17
Yes, those switches were more or less very similar. Terminal connections usually the same, though often the key way bezel was different. I think our '56 terminals however, had wide brass ends that often did not correspond with some other GM switch housing connections. So you put one of those on (the more narrow style of connector), and then you find your existing wire connectors under the dash do not fit onto the replacement switch.

Seem to recall the '57 Caddies had the more narrow spade connectors, than '56. Hope someone will correct if I remembered this incorrectly.

Yes, you can cut the brass connectors off of the ends of your ignition wires, strip the wire back and attach proper fitting ends, but...with the tiny length of wire GM provided, plus you are basically working both "up and under" the dash...it is easier said than done. Not fun either having hot solder dropping onto your face and arm! There are also sight line issues. Turned out to be one of the worse jobs ever as no room to work. Just stripping the wire ends (those under the dash from the harness), was awful. No "swing" room. Yes, I added a section of new wire & replacement connectors while on the bench to ease the pain, but still had to solder and heat shrink their ends to those under the dash for the best fit. A job from hell. Clay/Lexi