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Introducing myself, my '60 and '70 Devilles, and a couple small questions

Started by 2 Devilles, March 25, 2020, 12:04:47 PM

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2 Devilles

Hello!  My name is Lucas Johnson, I'm 40, live in Missoula, Montana, and am the service dispatcher at a Chevy/Cadillac dealership.  I've been a car guy all my life, as my dad is one, too.  I bought my first car, my '72 Mach 1 Mustang, at age 12 and still have it today.  Anyway, won't bore you with all the details, but a '60 Cadillac of any sort, especially a Coupe Deville, has been one of my dream cars for a very long time.  I never thought I'd be able to afford one, which is how I ended up with my '70 Coupe 7 years ago.  I wanted a Coupe Deville very much, and my '70 was within my budget, and I bought it and fell in love. It's Cotillion White with blue interior, and had 82k documented miles when I got it, and I'm just approaching 100k on it now.  It's been a great car, and in 2016 I drove it from here in Montana down to Vegas and back, and it never missed a beat.  I've currently got the fenders off it and am fixing the dreaded 69-70 rust issues with them.

I still wanted a 1960 even after having my 1970, and have been constantly searching for one even though I wouldn't be able to afford it. 4 years ago I came across another dream car of mine that was in my budget, a 1963 Riviera.  I bought and customized that car, and loved it, too, but the feeling of wanting a finned '60 never left my mind.  Finally, in October, I turned 40 and decided this was it.  It was time to finally get my other dream.  So I sold my Riviera, made some decent money on it, and paid off a couple loans.  Between the leftover funds from the Riv and getting a personal loan, I was able to finally realize that I could afford the '60 I've been after.  So, after a few months of searching, I found the right candidate down in Florida.  I've got a few friends down there off the V8Buick forums, and had one go check it out for me.  Everything was good, and it got here last week! 

It's Arroyo Turquoise, and is at 76k on the odo, but I have no way to discern if it's wrapped 0 times, once, twice, or who knows, so I'm not going to claim "original" miles.  It has Kelsey Hayes Saber wheels, aftermarket A/C, is lowered 2", and has an electronic ignition conversion, but that's it for modifications.  I'm going to keep it set-up like this as I feel it fits the car's style and personality.  I'm planning on installing a hidden stereo while keeping the factory unit hooked up and functioning, which I also did in my '70, but other then that and a few things here and there, it's going to stay the way it is.

Now, for a couple questions:

I know the exterior colors and what they are called on my cars, but could someone tell me what my interior colors/options are called on both of them?  There's so many option codes on them, and searching comes up with a lot of different lists of codes and descriptions, but I'm sure one of you is going to be able to look at these pics and say "well, the '70 is ____ inside, and the '60 is ___"

On the '60, I have a mono radio with a stock speaker in the dash and one speaker in the rear deck.  What size are the rear speakers?  They look like 6x9s, but want to make sure before I go ordering a set.  As I said, I'm going to keep the stock speakers hooked up with the factory AM radio, and install an aftermarket system with speakers in the stock "stereo" places, totally hidden.  I haven't climbed under the dash yet, is there only a spot for the factory single 4x10, or was there a "stereo" option for the front also?  If there was a stereo option, what size are the factory front speakers?

Anyway, that's it for now.  Happy to be here and I appreciate everyone's time reading my little story and checking out my pics!

Lucas

Lucas Johnson

1960 Coupe Deville
1970 Coupe Deville
1972 Mach 1 Mustang
1974 F100 2wd
1977 F250 Highboy
1994 F250 4x4

Cadman-iac

Hi Lucas,
And welcome to the club. Glad to have you here.

I had a 69 convertible back in the late 80's, and it was beginning to get the dreaded rust holes in the front fenders. What I did to correct that was to cut a couple of drains in the reinforcement behind the outer sheet metal so that anything that was able to get in between was able to get out instead of packing up in there and holding water/moisture and causing rust problems.
Mine had been in a minor accident before I bought it, and I had bought a few parts cars as insurance. When I had it apart to replace the core support is when I did the modifications to the lower fenders.

Hope this helps.
Rick
CLC# 32373
1956 Coupe Deville A/C car "Norma Jean"

2 Devilles

Thanks for the reply, Rick.  Those are some good ideas.  I've got a degree in auto body and also in metal fabrication.  I bought the patches from USA Parts Supply, but they leave a lot to be desired, so I'm going to be using them but doing some modifications to make them fit better.  Where the "kick" is in the fender from rocker panel to door is no where close to correct on them, if I put them on there will be about 1/4" gap between the door and fender.  Probably put the '70 on the back burner since my '60 just showed up and I'm super excited to get going on it.
Lucas Johnson

1960 Coupe Deville
1970 Coupe Deville
1972 Mach 1 Mustang
1974 F100 2wd
1977 F250 Highboy
1994 F250 4x4

76eldo

Lucas,

Welcome to the message board.  There are a lot of people here with a lot of accumulated knowledge.
We have a lot in common.  I also have a 60 Cadillac as well as a 70 DeVille.  I love the 63-65 Riv's but never really found the right one to buy.
If you can, take a pic of the plate on top of the cowl and we can decode the colors and options very easily on the 60 and the 70.  The shop manual for your 60 is actually going to be the 1959 Shop Manual and the 60 supplement.  Very informative and has all of the info needed to understand and work on your car.  Easy to find on ebay.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

Cadillac Fleetwood

Welcome!

Thank you for sharing photos of your cars. You will find many knowledgeable people on this forum.

The interior of your 1970 Coupe DeVille is called "Medium Blue Dubonnet Cloth and leather".  With a front bench seat, it is trim code 320.  With the 40/60 split bench, the trim code is 320S.  You will find this on the body data plate on the LH firewall area under the hood.

DeVille models with cloth trim differed slightly from those with leather trim.  On cloth-equipped cars, the door and rear quarter panel inserts were cloth, to match the seats, and the passenger-side instrument panel had an aluminum insert.  Leather-equipped cars utilized "oriental tamo wood" applique in those areas.

I have a 1970 Fleetwood Brougham that I have owned since 1985. It's Cotillion White with a white vinyl roof and a red leather interior.  The '70 Cadillacs are well-engineered, powerful, comfortable, reliable, and an absolute pleasure to drive and ride in, as you have no doubt experienced with your Coupe DeVille.

-Charles Fares
Forty-Five Years of Continuous Cadillac Ownership
1970 Fleetwood Brougham
1969 DeVille Convertible
1989 Fleetwood

"The splendor of the most special occasion is rivaled only by the pleasure of journeying there in a Cadillac"

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

76eldo

WOW what a fantastic resource.  How is it that I never saw this before?
Big thanks to whoever put this together and put it online.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

2 Devilles

Thanks guys! Yep already got the '59 manual with the '60 addendum that came with the car.  I got really lucky, as both cars came with manuals and LOTS of receipts.  The '70 came with the receipts for EVERYTHING including every fuel fill up back to it's purchase date in 1970, and the '60 has stuff from the late '70s to current.  I'll post up trim tags for you guys tonight or tomorrow.
Lucas Johnson

1960 Coupe Deville
1970 Coupe Deville
1972 Mach 1 Mustang
1974 F100 2wd
1977 F250 Highboy
1994 F250 4x4

Dan LeBlanc

Here's a fantastic resource for downloading factory literature on our cars - Salesman's Data Books, Owners Manuals, Optional Specifications Manuals, etc.

https://www.gmheritagecenter.com/gm-heritage-archive/vehicle-information-kits.html

Welcome aboard.
Dan LeBlanc
1977 Lincoln Continental Town Car

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

Quote from: 76eldo on March 25, 2020, 01:22:06 PM
WOW what a fantastic resource.  How is it that I never saw this before?
Big thanks to whoever put this together and put it online.

Brian

What??  :o

Thanks to the redoubtable Ralph Messina! :D
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

bcroe

Quote from: 2 DevillesThanks guys! Yep already got the '59 manual with the '60 addendum that came with the car.  I got really lucky, as both cars came with manuals and LOTS of receipts. 

the '60 has stuff from the late '70s to current. 

Very nice.  I wonder with the electronic ignition and other stuff, it
also has an alternator?  That was easy upgrade on my 62. 

According to my books, the first AM-FM Cad radio was 1963.  Bruce Roe

2 Devilles

Quote from: bcroe on March 25, 2020, 05:26:31 PM
Very nice.  I wonder with the electronic ignition and other stuff, it
also has an alternator?  That was easy upgrade on my 62. 

According to my books, the first AM-FM Cad radio was 1963.  Bruce Roe

No, it still has the generator.  Going to definitely swap to an alternator (I wasn't sure how this board is about modifications, so I hadn't posted the question yet.  I was a member on the AACA forums, and they went strictly no modifications).  Is there a bolt in that will replace it easily like a 10DN, or am I going to be fabbing some brackets?  I could always go to a 1 wire internal regulated set-up, but is the spacing for the bolts through the generator the same?  This is my first car with a generator.

P.S. I've got a lower amp Delco off my 472 sitting on the shelf I could try.
Lucas Johnson

1960 Coupe Deville
1970 Coupe Deville
1972 Mach 1 Mustang
1974 F100 2wd
1977 F250 Highboy
1994 F250 4x4

bcroe

Quote from: 2 Devilles on March 25, 2020, 05:43:00 PM
No, it still has the generator.  Going to definitely swap to an alternator (I wasn't sure how this board is about modifications, so I hadn't posted the question yet.  I was a member on the AACA forums, and they went strictly no modifications).  Is there a bolt in that will replace it easily like a 10DN, or am I going to be fabbing some brackets?  I could always go to a 1 wire internal regulated set-up, but is the spacing for the bolts through the generator the same?  This is my first car with a generator.

P.S. I've got a lower amp Delco off my 472 sitting on the shelf I could try.

I upgraded my 62 by changing to a 63 mounting bracket, do not know if
yours could do that.  Wiring was mostly removing stuff, then hooking up
the 3 alt wires.  I do not recommend 1 wire alts, as they have a number of
negatives.  Some say do not change anything, but your car is way beyond
that.  I changed to avoid so much maintenance, you might need more power. 
good luck, Bruce Roe

Harley Earl

Hello Lucas,  I'm a newer returning member (originally joined in '86) so welcome.  I started out with this Cadillac fever via a '59 Coupe de Ville that I bought for $200 back in October 1986 so I can speak somewhat to your '60.  I also had a '70 Coupe from 1988 to 1989 and a jillion other Cadillacs and many other makes up until the present.  I worked in the automotive software, electronics and OEM parts businesses over my career as well.  My hope is that I can give you some solid advice based on many good and bad experiences both personally and professionally, especially as it relates to Cadillac.  I have a '50 Series 61 at present which I'm upgrading in a "stealth" fashion which you may appreciate in your experience/quest.

Speaking to your generator vs. alternator situation; I wholeheartedly recommend the "Genre-Nator" (as does Jay Leno) made made by Don Allen in Oregon.  Looks dead-on like your OEM Generator but is a modern alternator.  Google "Gener-Nator" for Don's website.  Mine has a dummy voltage regulator with all correct cloth covered wiring routed as Cadillac intended.  Absolutely top-notch build quality and SERVICE, especially after the sale which, as you know, is generally absent after you pay for something these days.  Worth the cost.  I've had countless rebuilt generators, modified alternators to "fit" and also installed modified charging systems in many past builds, nothing beats OEM factory fitment.  No hunting for various unobtainium parts to make something fit, been there, done that too many times.

As for your radio situation.  I had a glove box system in my '59.  Sounded ok BUT I suggest a rehab of your existing radio.  You can have the existing system gutted and turned into a modern stereo with bluetooth & USB while keeping the stock look.  For instance, I ordered a stock '50 Wonderbar off eBay for my '50.  I then sent it off to be upgraded.  Looks stock, wonderbar seek works, vacuum antenna switch works, it's 6v, AM/FM stereo, bluetooth, usb and I can make/receive phone calls with my '50 Cadillac Wonderbar radio!

Your dash speaker should be a 4x10 from what I remember (I got ten years of age on you so forgive me if I get this wrong) and your rear should be a 6x9.  Consider stereo all in one units in the factory locations front and rear (right & left speaker/drivers in each front and rear speaker location).  Put some subwoofers and an amp under your front seat.  Maybe some tweeters hidden in the headliner by the right and left sun visors.  Hide everything, the wow factor is better than any glove box unit and rear package tray cut in speaker system can offer.  Google S&M Electro-tech in Minnesota. 

Again my advice is based on spending much more to make countless things work rather than starting out by modifying OEM.  Those GM engineers and all the product testing were what made our cars beyond awesome, take advantage of the legacy that they gave us.

Best of luck and enjoy that beautiful '60!
Hoping for a Standard Trans Cimarron

Previous
1950 Series 61 Sedan - Savoy Gray
1974 Coupe de Ville - Victorian Amber Firemist
1959 Coupe de Ville - Brenton Blue
And 20 "other" Cadillacs from the 40s to the 80s

76eldo

Harley,

I can also endorse the Genernator.  I installed one on a 1960 a while ago for a friend that made a RT 66 trip from Chicago to the pier in Santa Monica.  It worked and continues to work flawlessly but it's not inexpensive.  I think about $850.00??
You can fit an alternator for a lot less if you are not concerned about authenticity.

Briajn
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

2 Devilles

Hey, thanks guys.  I'll look at the Gener-nator, but that might be a big out of the old budget.  Doing a little measuring, it looks like I'll be able to dang near bolt the 3 wire on and machine some spacers, we'll see.  Here's the data plate of the '60, haven't gotten out to the '70 for a while to take a pic.

Lucas Johnson

1960 Coupe Deville
1970 Coupe Deville
1972 Mach 1 Mustang
1974 F100 2wd
1977 F250 Highboy
1994 F250 4x4

2 Devilles

I've decoded it to being a Coupe Deville built on the first week of August, in Arroyo Turquoise, with Turqoise/Black Cambray and Medium Turqoise leather, and having 3.36 rear gears and a heater.  Anything else?
Lucas Johnson

1960 Coupe Deville
1970 Coupe Deville
1972 Mach 1 Mustang
1974 F100 2wd
1977 F250 Highboy
1994 F250 4x4