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1947 driving/shifting Hydromatic

Started by VooDoo, April 16, 2020, 12:49:32 AM

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VooDoo

Just had a couple quick question regarding driving/ shifting. My new (to me) 1947 6109 has and automatic transmission.  Is it a neutral safety switch that makes you shift a little beyond neutral before you can start the car? When driving do I need to start out in the low setting and then shift to the high setting? I noticed  The car performs much better going uphill if I start in the low gear when I’m approaching an incline from a dead stop vs having it in high gear from the start? Like I said I’m new to this and would appreciate any info. Also I know there is no parking gear so what is the best way to park the vehicle when not driving? I’ve been told to put it in reverse and turn it off and set the break? Thanks I really appreciate the info 😁
Andy Fulenwider
1937 75 Series Convertible
1947 62 Series Custom Project

PHIL WHYTE CLC 14192

You should just put it in drive and use it like that. It sounds like the neutral safety switch needs adjusting, it should start in neutral. Yes reverse was used as "park" on these transmissions. Low is for snow and ice or stuck in mud etc. The 50s update of this transmission had two drive ranges, 4 speed for all round use and 3 speed for steep hills etc. Phil

TonyZappone #2624

Probably the hardest thing to learn is placing the car in reverse, while running.  You can grind the heck out of things if you do not let the car move imperceptibly almost in dr or lo, before pulling back on the lever and down into reverse. 
Tony Zappone, #2624
1936 Pierce-Arrow conv sed
1947 Cadillac Conv cpe
1958 Cadillac conv
2016 Cadillac CT6 Platinum
2022 Chrysler Pacifica Pinnacle

VooDoo

Thanks for the info.  How would I go about adjusting the neutral safety switch?

Thanks
Andy Fulenwider
1937 75 Series Convertible
1947 62 Series Custom Project

PHIL WHYTE CLC 14192

Hi Andy, I would suggest getting the workshop manual for your car. My car is a 1954 and the neutral safety switch is visible under the hood attached to the steering column. From memory you loosen the attaching screws and move the switch one way or the other until you get it lined up correctly to start in neutral. The comment above about selecting reverse when the engine is running is not a problem on my year, but possibly is on the earlier versions. Phil

TonyZappone #2624

Phil:  The reverse situation is a problem all through the forties at least, as I had a few 49's, and I believe they were that way also.  Someone will know when the forties trans transitioned to the newe 50's up graded unit
Tony Zappone, #2624
1936 Pierce-Arrow conv sed
1947 Cadillac Conv cpe
1958 Cadillac conv
2016 Cadillac CT6 Platinum
2022 Chrysler Pacifica Pinnacle

Barry M Wheeler #2189

I "think" they had that problem solved by the end of 1942. Can someone chime in and confirm? If worse came to worst, try pulling it gently into reverse. If there is going to be a problem, it will show up quickly and you can back off. (It will grind quickly.)
Barry M. Wheeler #2189


1981 Cadillac Seville
1991 Cadillac Seville

TonyZappone #2624

Barry:  I have had at least four 47's, all the same.  I can't remember if the 49's did it also, been awhile since I had one
Tony Zappone, #2624
1936 Pierce-Arrow conv sed
1947 Cadillac Conv cpe
1958 Cadillac conv
2016 Cadillac CT6 Platinum
2022 Chrysler Pacifica Pinnacle

VooDoo

Thanks guys for the input. Seems like I just need to let it go though gears before putting in reverse. It will grind quickly otherwise.  Lots to learn and many more questions to come. This is a great place to do just that. Thanks again
Andy Fulenwider
1937 75 Series Convertible
1947 62 Series Custom Project

Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373

#9
Please forgive my not understanding here. Am I correct in the comments that the early ones would grind when putting in reverse unless you put it into the other drive ranges and let it creep? If so, is moving it necessary or just letting it engage? Put in all ranges or just low? If so, do you know what they did to correct it?
Thanks for clarifying.
Jeff
Jeff Rosansky
CLC #28373
1970 Coupe DeVille (Big Red)
1955 Series 62 (Baby Blue)
Dad's new 1979 Coupe DeVille

TonyZappone #2624

What I said, probably not very clearly, is to go forward "imperceptibly" or just a hair, or a half inch, whatever makes more sense, then it slips nicely into reverse with THE LEVER PULLED BACK










Tony Zappone, #2624
1936 Pierce-Arrow conv sed
1947 Cadillac Conv cpe
1958 Cadillac conv
2016 Cadillac CT6 Platinum
2022 Chrysler Pacifica Pinnacle

Jay Friedman

The reverse mechanism was improved in 1951 which made shifting into reverse very smooth.
1949 Cadillac 6107 Club Coupe
1932 Ford V8 Phaeton (restored, not a rod).  Sold
Decatur, Georgia
CLC # 3210, since 1984
"If it won't work, get a bigger hammer."

PHIL WHYTE CLC 14192

That makes sense, my wife had a 51 CDV and reverse was no problem. 😁

Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373

Quote from: TonyZappone #2624 on April 17, 2020, 10:20:48 AM
What I said, probably not very clearly, is to go forward "imperceptibly" or just a hair, or a half inch, whatever makes more sense, then it slips nicely into reverse with THE LEVER PULLED BACK
Interesting. Thanks
Jeff Rosansky
CLC #28373
1970 Coupe DeVille (Big Red)
1955 Series 62 (Baby Blue)
Dad's new 1979 Coupe DeVille

harry s

Another impact on shifting to reverse is too high an idle. With a cold start you should kick it off of fast idle before backing up. Likewise have operating idle speed set correctly.
Harry
Harry Scott 4195
1941 6733
1948 6267X
2011 DTS Platinum

TonyZappone #2624

Point well made.  I forgot to mention that
Tony Zappone, #2624
1936 Pierce-Arrow conv sed
1947 Cadillac Conv cpe
1958 Cadillac conv
2016 Cadillac CT6 Platinum
2022 Chrysler Pacifica Pinnacle

larrygood

Hello Andy-  I just found this forum topic.  I've had my 47-6109 for 55 years and still drive it every day the weather's nice, like today, yesterday, the day before...  The advice above is all good.  As you know, the forward gear positions are adjacent to the Reverse position on the selector with no Neutral in between, so you shift directly between them.  Let me just summarize what I've learned about the transmission.

1a.  The gears will never grind going into Reverse unless the car is moving.  Don't let it.  The Reverse shift is only for a dead stop.

1b.  To shift into reverse, first have the transmission engaged in a forward gear - only while standing still - then try shifting into reverse.  Most of the time the gears are meshed well enough and it will slip right in.  In case they're not meshed, let up, drift forward just a hair and try again.  It will go in.  In case you're up against a wall and can't move forward, try rocking and bouncing the car.  It may go in.  If still not, go into neutral and push the car backward with your foot.  Then start over.

2.  Since there is no "Park" feature, Reverse serves the purpose.  Shut off the engine with the transmission engaged in a forward gear.  After the engine's off, shift into Reverse.  All the above tricks apply.  If you park the car this way, security is guaranteed.  The car will NOT move.  However, if you shut the engine off in Neutral or Reverse, the car may or may not hold its position in Reverse.  No guarantee.

3.  The transmission has the "Lo" selection that holds the car in the lower two gears.  The only practical use I've found for this is braking.  Downshifting into Lo really holds the car back.  Try to keep this trick under 30 mph.  One time I lost my hydraulic brakes and got the car home over a Pennsylvania mountain range with a combination of downshifting into Lo, the hand brake, and a great abundance of defensive anticipation... didn't even have a close call.  Another time, the hydraulic brakes faded with heat in a California mountain range, and Lo slowed the car down quickly.

I'm sure there are many shops in the country that can service your transmission, but one is king of the hill.  The ultimate, in my book, is Fisher (FATSCO) in New Jersey.

https://www.facebook.com/pg/Fisher-Automatic-Transmission-211975445487435/photos/?ref=page_internal

The story goes that old man Fisher was a tank transmission mechanic during the war.  He mastered these Cadillac transmissions and started a family transmission service after the war.  Now the sons have it.  Their work is right the first time every time and lasts for decades.  Other Cadillac owners complain that their shifts clunk.  Not mine.  Fisher is the only place I'd take my Hydramatics.  This endorsement was unpaid and unsolicited.  (They don't even remember me.  ;)  )

Sincerely.
Larry Good
CLC #1737

bcroe

Quote from: andynjoy99My new (to me) 1947 6109 has and automatic transmission.  Is it a neutral safety switch that makes you shift a little beyond neutral before you can start the car?

When driving do I need to start out in the low setting and then shift to the high setting? I noticed  The car performs much better going uphill if I start in the low gear when I’m approaching an incline from a dead stop vs having it in high gear from the start?

My first hydro had similar problems, would not start in neutral.  Imagine how
dangerous that is if you killed the engine (emergency braking) in traffic, then
need to bring the car to a complete stop before putting it in PARK to start.  Not
sure of your exact wiring, but I would take a small 12V test light and connect
it between 12V battery and which ever safety switch terminal gives the needed
reading.  Move the shifter and note the range the switch activates the light.  Do
adjust the switch to get in mid range for both positions. 

The Hydro has no direct way of sensing engine torque, so at low rpm it may be
inclined to shift into a higher gear than you like.  That was cured with the TH400
which use a vacuum modulator for better sensing.  Many of us have resorted to
using the manual shifter, to keep the Hydro in the best performing range. 
good luck, Bruce Roe