Sending a '78 Fleetwood to demolition derby...

[colinlikens]

The following Craigslist ad is offering up a '78 Fleetwood specifically for demolition derby use.  I agree that the car looks to be in need of an awful lot of restoration, probably too much to justify the effort and expense.  But still, doesn't it kind of make you sad?

https://allentown.craigslist.org/cto/d/phillipsburg-78-cadillac-fleetwood/7114160968.html

Maybe I'm just particularly sensitive because my other old car is a '78 Buick wagon.  And big old wagons are even more scarce because so many of them ended their lives as derby cars.

[TJ Hopland]

These days those RWD full frame cars are so rare that they usually have to pay more for them so they will often do some parting out to recoup some of their costs.   At least that lets other cars live on.   

[SixDucks]

The fact that it's a Fleetwood makes it even worse.
Terry

[cadillacmike68]

Eric will have a kinipshin.

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Not a bit as this car is well beyond salvation; the real shame is the loss as a donor car.

Body on frame cars generally don't hold up well in demolition derbies which turn into a crumpled mess usually within the first couple collisions so really not worth entering. I have to tip my hat to certain full size Chryslers with unibody construction in that regard. The price is reduced ride quality & noise isolation of cars using that design. 

[Scot Minesinger]

I thought the 60's Imperials (last year was 66) with body on frame were so durable they became disqualified?

[colinlikens]

If that's true about the Imperials it's interesting that such rigid frames didn't handle better.  If I recall correctly a side-by-side Car & Driver magazine comparison of six luxury cars in July of 1965 (Fleetwood Brougham, Continental, Imperial, Rolls, Mercedes 600, and Jaguar) had the Imperial dead last in handling.  Proudly for Cadillac, the Fleetwood was second only to the more than twice as expensive Mercedes.  That article's been shared here once or twice.  It's a great read for anyone who hasn't.

https://www.curbsideclassic.com/blog/vintage-reviews/six-luxury-cars-a-car-and-driver-test-from-1965-with-some-cc-pictures/

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

I managed to save a 78 Eldorado from the clutches of the Demolition Derby crowd but it ended up at the recycler, minus its' Western Cyclone II wheels, plus a lot of other parts which also came to me, and another CLC Member that assisted me in getting the car from the seller.

The owner sold it to me in preference to the Demo crowd as he didn't want to see it wastefully destroyed, but didn't mind me wanting it for mainly the wheels.   I told him why I wanted it.

Bruce.

PS.   These wheels now complete my '72 Eldo, plus I have spares.   Boy, postage of the parts was a killer.

[Dan LeBlanc]

That's how I ended up with my 77 Town Car.  I bought it from the estate of the original owner.  He was the former VP of Electrolux Canada and his wife was a Dame.  The car caught my eye in that it was a black diamondfire car, so I made the initial enquiry.  He told me to come up to Quebec to look at it as it had been in his father's barn since 2002 and that he had died earlier that year and wanted the barn space for the equipment to run his maple sugar operation.  The price was high, but I went anyway.  I got there, he said the only people interested in it were demolition derby people and that he didn't want it in those hands.  He asked my intentions, which I told him were to address the mechanicals from sitting for 15 years, and then paint it, and that's about it.  When I told him that, he cut the price by more than half.  I drug it home on a trailer 2 weeks later.  It was too good to be a derby car, but won't be worth what I put into it.  But, for me, it's a 77 (last year for skirts and thermometer style speedometer), has a 460, and it's a nice colour and something to mess around with, drive regardless of rain or shine.  Much like my old 63 Impala was used.

Derby guys are the plague for those of us who like 70's luxury cars.  I can't help but think when we see cars priced to the moon of this type, the sellers are trying to avoid them falling into the wrong hands.  Sometimes if your intentions are good, you can pick them up cheap enough if you promise not to derby it.  My promise was to drive it back to Quebec to take the seller for a drive for one last drive in his father's last new car.  I still have his phone number, and I will do that, I just haven't done anything much with the car yet other than get it running - sort of. The moron derby guy who showed up to look at it tried to start it in the barn and bent the push rods on all 8 cylinders by sticking a battery in it to see what would happen.  I've replaced them, got compression back on all 8 cylinders, and had it running for a few minutes on a remote gas can.  Now for everything else. 

[James Landi]

Much like an accident going somewhere to happen, the "derby guy" almost sealed the fate of that car had you not appreciated its intrinsic value.  Clearly, for nearly everyone else, it was of little or no value.  My aged  "in-laws" wanted to gift their pristine, garage kept, low mileage Buick to one of their three adult grandchildren-- all of whom were (an still are) living from pay check to pay check.  NO ONE WANTED to be seen in a Buick!  I rushed right in, and now, ten years later, I put another 60,000 carefree miles on this car, and it still looks great and runs perfectly. I don't think of myself as "old school," but perhaps I am.    Happy day, and be of good cheer, James 

[J. Skelly]

A demolition derby was the fate of my first car, my grandmother's '71 Eldorado.  Whatever body panel wasn't rusted out (fenders, doors, quarters around wheel openings) had been banged up before I got it.

The final straw was having it parked in front of my parents' house on a Saturday afternoon and watching a kid in a '71 Chevelle blow through the stop sign and collide with my aggressive neighbor in his Chevy van.  I got my jacket and went outside, but my car was gone!  The neighbor's van had plowed head-on into the Eldo.  It was a Fall day with a lot of wet leaves in the street, so apparently my poor car slid down the street two full lots!  It was perfectly parallel-parked in the driving lane next to the neighbor's new Ford Escort!  The stupid kid was 16, had dropped his cigarette or something, and said he wasn't paying attention.  The neighbor's van was parked in front of my parents' house.  He was thrown across the other side since he didn't have a seat belt on and had to be taken to the hospital.  To top it off, the kid's Mom lied to the insurance company and said there were only 2 vehicles involved.  We had the same insurance company, and my car was totaled.  I still drove it for several months until the missing teeth in the flexplate burnt out another starter.  I stored it at my grandmother's farm for several years until the old building started to collapse.

The car had pinholes above the windshield, so whenever it rained I had to drape a blanket over my lap.  Besides all of the sheetmetal damage, the drive axle boots were cracked, and so was the windshield.  There were too many things wrong with it, so I reluctantly sold it after filling several boxes with parts.  It just wasn't worth storing until I had the money to restore it, and it would have been an expensive restoration.  I went to the derby with a buddy.  After a couple of minor collisions, the guy stalled it and the carb caught fire.   

[TJ Hopland]

A Chevelle vs a van vs a 71 Eldo you would not have thought the Eldo would be the looser there. 

I didn't think they allowed FWD cars in the derbys in the old days?   Also front distributor engines are usually not the first choice.   You for sure have to do your best to seal them but even sealed they can still be vulnerable. 

[GregoryAlan]

When I was a little kid my dad had a '56 Cad coupe. I loved that car, probably because dad did. He was a blue collar man that owned a white collar automobile, he was all about status in those days. The caddy died in '67 (rusted away) and he bought a new 4 door Ford. That was comparable to buying a minivan and becoming a family man...

I have a very fond memory of a '56 sedan and a demolition derby...

We would go to the little fair out in the country near grandma's place. There was always a demo derby on Saturday at the fair. I have a very vivid memory of watching the demo derby with dad and we were cheering on that old caddy sedan. That was a solid car and no one could stop it. They might have slowed it down some at the expense of being a komikaze driver and sacrificing their ride.

That old caddy sedan was the last car standing/moving...back then no one cared to save an old car and they were dime a dozen...

[J. Skelly]

A Chevelle vs a van vs a 71 Eldo you would not have thought the Eldo would be the looser there. 

I didn't think they allowed FWD cars in the derbys in the old days?   Also front distributor engines are usually not the first choice.   You for sure have to do your best to seal them but even sealed they can still be vulnerable.

My car wasn't the loser.  It had the least amount of damage, but was 11 years old like the Chevelle.  The insurance company decided it was only worth $600. Both front fenders slightly buckled above the wheel opening.  The fenders, grille, and bumper would have to be replaced.  The front end of the Chevelle was a real mess, and the front of the van was crushed in.  My car was still drivable since most of the force hitting it caused it to slide on the wet leaves.

[Anderson]

As much as we're blaming the demolition derby for a shortage of these cars, and while there's definitely a grain of truth in that allocation of blame...I cannot help but wonder how many of those cars were fixable in practical terms?  The rust issues in particular come to mind (witness this car).

It is frustrating as the interior looks good, but if you're looking at a car that's going to need five figures worth of bodywork just to not be falling apart?  That's an issue.

(Don't get me wrong, I definitely do lament how many cars weren't taken care of, properly garaged, etc. over the years, and that's often the issue with these.  And in some cases those derby cars may well have been wrecks to begin with, which just proved to be salvagable for one evening.  But in a lot of cases, I'd argue that the derby is the after-effect of a bunch of other stuff piling up.)

[TJ Hopland]

I'm certainly no expert, in fact barely a spectator of the sport but I suspect its like many sports that start out as cheap 'every man' entertainment.   Being cheap they really had no choice other than to use cars that were basically headed for or already in the junkyard.   As these things grew as the often do it sort of turns semi professional where there is a lot more money involved.

I would guess that a non rusted out and beat almost to death car would perform better than one straight out of the junkyard so as soon as there was money they likely started going for better cars.  As soon as one team did the others had to follow just to stay competitive.   You then factor in that we went to smaller FWD unibody cars the supply got even smaller.   I think that is when you really started to see some nice cars enter the sport.   For a while they were taking the 4 door cars because they were cheaper but once the prices of 2 doors got out of reach for many enthusiasts they started taking 4 doors as project and collector cars which drove the prices up and supply down.     

Its amazing to me that they can keep the classic RWD full frame version of the sport going these days.   The last time I saw a show the classic part was by far the most boring part.   The FWD cars with improvised rear skis was a lot more fun to watch and there were a lot more cars competing. 

[MaR]

As much as we're blaming the demolition derby for a shortage of these cars, and while there's definitely a grain of truth in that allocation of blame...I cannot help but wonder how many of those cars were fixable in practical terms?  The rust issues in particular come to mind (witness this car).

It is frustrating as the interior looks good, but if you're looking at a car that's going to need five figures worth of bodywork just to not be falling apart?  That's an issue.

(Don't get me wrong, I definitely do lament how many cars weren't taken care of, properly garaged, etc. over the years, and that's often the issue with these.  And in some cases those derby cars may well have been wrecks to begin with, which just proved to be salvagable for one evening.  But in a lot of cases, I'd argue that the derby is the after-effect of a bunch of other stuff piling up.)

I see more perfectly good cars parted out on ebay than good ones sent to a derby.

[Anderson]

I'm thinking back to when I was growing up.  I never went to a demolition derby (it never really appealed to me), but there was a race format called an "Enduro" that was run at a local track.  The best way to explain it is if you take a short-track race and cross it with rush hour in Los Angeles (I think 60-90 cars has been standard, and I think they've gone over a hundred once or twice, on a <.4 mile track).  The net tended to be lots of crashes, but the objective wasn't necessarily the vast majority of vehicles being disabled/destroyed (I think it was entirely possible that some vehicles would get patched up and put back in another race in a month or two, and from what I recall a couple of vehicles would simply have their engines die from a bad bump-in...but I think the completion rate tended to be in the ballpark of 20%).

(As an aside, there was one race I was at when I was a kid where there was roughly a full-field crash at the start of lap one.  I think the race went on hold for about 20 minutes once the dust cleared [in this case, literally] while they untangled that mess.)

[druby]

This may upset many, but I myself have driven in Demolition Derbies for over 35 years (retired as a driver now) and now am an official for the races. I have won championships races throughout Maryland, Virginia, Pennsylvania and Delaware. Scot Minesinger is correct about the Imperial model being outlawed. Though many would put a Newport body on an Imperial frame and get away with it until. Somebody like myself would protest after inspection of the winning car. Now I had access to several junkyards in my area that would happily supply me with a car as long as I returned it to them for scrap. I’ve used several Cadillac’s over the years and stripped every useable part off the car I could sell. My father Henry Ruby & I sold strictly Cadillac parts in Carlisle & Hershey for many years, there were only about 3 of us that dealt with only Cadillac parts. Now some of the photos I posted look like damn nice cars but let me assure you that duct tape and a paint roller car make any car look great at 10 feet ! My car of choice was always the 75-77 Chevy Monte Carlo and 72-74 Ford Grand Torino. The later model full body Cadillac’s never held up well in the Derbies, they would fold like an envelope ! We would convert some of my later model cars  over to leaf springs and put a notch in the rear quarters which made a huge impact on how the car held up in a race. Nowadays the idea is to build the front of your car to withstand what the rear of the car used do. If you go on any derby website, you’ll see most drivers are using the front of the car to destruct other.