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Author Topic: Brougham 1989 Y Engine Sensors wireness ?  (Read 530 times)

Offline 911tom

  • Posts: 6
  • Name: Tom K.
Brougham 1989 Y Engine Sensors wireness ?
« on: May 02, 2020, 09:46:59 AM »
Who has a Brougham or other GM with the Y 307 engine 4bbl carburator ?
I have two temp sensors at the top of the engine and need to connect it. Can someone take
a picture of his wireness in this area ? Also i have a green plug which is not connected in that area ?

thanks alot

Offline The Tassie Devil(le)

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 12412
  • CLC Number: 18992
  • Name: Bruce Reynolds
Re: Brougham 1989 Y Engine Sensors wireness ?
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2020, 09:11:20 PM »
G'day Tom,

You have an email from the Moderators was sent on the 12th. April that requires your attention.

Thanks,

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Offline 79 Eldorado

  • Posts: 836
  • Name: S Kent
Re: Brougham 1989 Y Engine Sensors wireness ?
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2020, 11:06:58 AM »
Tom,
The 307 was originally an Oldsmobile motor. I don't have anything with the 307 anymore and my newest was a 1985 but a lot of times the sensors have green wires. The older Olds engines have the oil pressure sender in front of the intake; not in the intake but the horizontal shelf in back of the timing cover plate. The oil sender has a rubber boot type connector on the older cars. The coolant temp sensor is probably in the front water passage of the intake manifold. It's probably on the driver side (left). The harness for both of those may be routed near the intake side of the driver side valve cover. The temp sensor may have a "T" like profile where the harness slides on from the side over the top of the "T" if that makes any sense.

If you show us a photo of the sensors/senders you are trying to identify someone here may be able to help you determine which is which.

Is your harness all there, with all of the connectors, or are you trying to reconstruct something? If you think you've found the correct wire, but you are missing the connector, first verify it's not a powered wire with the key in the run position (multimeter or test light). If there is no power then ground the wire and look at your gauges.

Scott

Offline 911tom

  • Posts: 6
  • Name: Tom K.
Re: Brougham 1989 Y Engine Sensors wireness ?
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2020, 08:29:09 AM »
Here we go.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2020, 08:31:29 AM by 911tom »

Offline TJ Hopland

  • Posts: 10188
Re: Brougham 1989 Y Engine Sensors wireness ?
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2020, 03:02:51 PM »
The two pin does look like it goes to the carb which is the mixture control solenoid (MCS).  With no signal it defaults to rich so that is why the car may still run but I would think the computer would not be happy. 

The green one almost looks like its a test connector for something.   Either to measure a voltage or if grounded or connected to voltage to operate something or put it into test mode. 
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Offline 79 Eldorado

  • Posts: 836
  • Name: S Kent
Re: Brougham 1989 Y Engine Sensors wireness ?
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2020, 03:31:01 PM »
Tom,
I agree with TJ on the weatherpack looking connector.

I'm not certain on the green one either. As obvious as it seems I always look for something which it can reach easily if the routing is correct. If it cannot reach anything maybe it is a diagnostic plug.

I guess you realized it but it looks like there is an open vacuum port on the orange "T'. I also see there are two coolant sensors/senders with wires. Sometimes there is one more on the opposite side of the water neck.

I can also see the oil sender in your photo but I cannot see if there are wires attached. It's normally a single wire but I thought I would try to point out the location.

Do you have a service manual? You know the wire colors and there are 2 of the same color. That may help if you have an Electrical Troubleshooting manual. I can see if I have one which is close but the newest I have the Elect Trouble Shooting for is 1983.

Scott

Offline 79 Eldorado

  • Posts: 836
  • Name: S Kent
Re: Brougham 1989 Y Engine Sensors wireness ?
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2020, 04:12:49 PM »
Tom,
I paged through the 1983 Oldsmobile manual (closest I had). There are a couple of diagrams of that area and there is a diagnostic point called the "Diagnostic dwell meter connector". I cannot see what the connector looks like. Not sure if that helps but I scanned the single page so you could see it.

Scott
« Last Edit: May 11, 2020, 04:15:11 PM by 79 Eldorado »

Offline 911tom

  • Posts: 6
  • Name: Tom K.
Re: Brougham 1989 Y Engine Sensors wireness ?
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2020, 04:54:13 AM »
Thank you really a lot for your help. Im also reading the haynes book but cant find a solution.

the two temp sensors, the oil sender and the two pin connecter are connected. Only the single one is open.

Im still having one hose which comes from the crank case block. ??? i should mark them next time when im renewing this stuff.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2020, 04:57:16 AM by 911tom »

Offline Cadman-iac

  • Posts: 1872
  • CLC Number: 32373
  • Name: Richard Cook
Re: Brougham 1989 Y Engine Sensors wireness ?
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2020, 08:25:31 AM »
Tom,
 IIRC, there's a small hose that goes to the air cleaner housing for the "thermac" (I think that's right) valve. Have you checked to see if that's where your last hose goes?
 I used to have an 89 Brougham De Elegance with that 307 in it. I had forgotten that it had so much crap on it you couldn't find the engine under it.
 It is somewhat intimidating when you begin working on it, and especially so if you don't have a service manual.
 I would recommend that you find one if you are planning on doing much more work on yours. Even with a manual,  it can be confusing if you are not familiar with these systems, and the older the car gets, the harder it is to find someone who remembers all the little tricks of the trade if you will.
 Those are really nice cars, and I wish you the best of luck with yours.

Rick
1956 Coupe Deville A/C car "Norma Jean"

Offline TJ Hopland

  • Posts: 10188
Re: Brougham 1989 Y Engine Sensors wireness ?
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2020, 12:19:15 PM »
Air cleaner housing would for sure have a vacuum hose connected to it.  There is a temp sensor that then has a short hose to the actual air door in the snorkel part. 

I also noticed in the photo that that vacuum dodad that appears to be laying on top of the EGR valve in the photo has an open vacuum port on it.   I doubt your loose hose is supposed to go there but something probably is supposed to connect there. 

Do yourself a favor and after you tear out the color photos of the spark plugs throw that haynes book in the recycle bin.  Over all the years and model I have found those to actually be helpful maybe 5% of the time.  The other 95% of the time they just frustrate or mislead you.   They just cover too many models over too may years to make any sense especially when you are dealing with something like this car which is about the most convoluted and complicated system ever devised. 

It also doesn't help with this car that Cadillac seemed to be searching the GM parts warehouse and using what they found leftover.   Some of these had electric chokes some were still air.  Some had the vacuum idle control like this one, others had a fast idle solenoid while others had the stepper motors.   

Try to find yourself an actual GM Cadillac factory service manual.   There appear to be plenty of them around for as low as $10 shipped.   
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Offline Cadman-iac

  • Posts: 1872
  • CLC Number: 32373
  • Name: Richard Cook
Re: Brougham 1989 Y Engine Sensors wireness ?
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2020, 12:27:55 PM »
I had my Brougham back in the late 90's, and I think I paid $75. for my service manual. I wouldn't have even tried to do anything on it without that book. It was just too complicated to try to figure out unless you had experience with them.
 But even at $75., it was well worth it. I still refer to it for other reasons, as a lot of things I have worked on are covered in it.
 Good luck with your repair/rebuild.

Rick
1956 Coupe Deville A/C car "Norma Jean"

Offline TJ Hopland

  • Posts: 10188
Re: Brougham 1989 Y Engine Sensors wireness ?
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2020, 12:53:45 PM »
His last photo pretty clearly reminds us what a disaster the 80's were especially with carburetors.   Every single function took just a couple more hoses and wires.   I really don't understand why they didn't go to the TBI system like even the trucks got in 87.   By comparison that system was dead simple and reliable partially in part to Cadillac starting to use it in 1980. 
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Offline 79 Eldorado

  • Posts: 836
  • Name: S Kent
Re: Brougham 1989 Y Engine Sensors wireness ?
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2020, 01:47:32 PM »
Tom,
I also noticed the same vacuum thing with a missing hose which TJ pointed out near the EGR.

One big clue to what this hose is/where it goes is the vacuum check valve in the line (black plastic piece which has a portion in the shape of a cone). I absolutely remember that being on my 1984 but as I recall they aren't "everywhere". I think I only had one so if you research what the vacuum check valve is inline with you should be able to figure out where that vacuum line goes.

Scott

 

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