1949 Cadillac 75 series 3 wheels wont turn brakes are on.

[49Fleetwood]

well the problem is that one front and two back wheels wont turn.
This car is been sitting in a barn for a long time and my uncle who i inherited this car from told me that a child pushed on the brake pedal and thats the reason these wheels are stuck.
now i would like to know the best way to get the wheels turning again so i can get it on a trailer.
i already tried to get the adjuster to move but it also seems to be stuck, or am i doing something wrong?

thank you in advance for your help
p.s. i am from the Netherlands so please excuse my spelling mistakes ...

[wheikkila]

Good Evening
To start with the brake shoes are most likely rusted to the drums. The best way is to remove the tires and hammer gently on the drum and use a bar to turn the drums. Or you can drag the car and hope the brakes free up.
Thanks Wayne 

[49Fleetwood]

Wayne, thank you for your reply.
the hammering i tried already.
I know i can put the nuts back on but won't the bar damage the wheel studs?
maybe i can dril holes in a flat piece of steel and put that under 2 wheel nuts and then use that to put some more weight on it.
And gently tap on that with a hammer?
Dragging is a problem because the stable doors open up to a buzy road.

[49Fleetwood]

Is there someone who has a picture off the brakes with the drum of?

[Hilarius]

Here's a picture with the drum off. It is not of a 49 but of a 1940-75 model, but the differences are small if existent.
The uncle said that after prolonged standstill a child put the brake pedal down and ever since the wheels are solid.
Now, it happens with old brake hoses that they swell up over time and when you put the brake down the pressure still goes through the hoses and expands the brakes but the brake springs are unable to return the shoes through the swelled brake hoses.
I propose to cut the brake hoses, as you won't be using them anymore, anyway, thus relieve pressure and then try to tap off the brake drums from the shoes with the help of rust solvent or some WD40 sprayed into the brakes via the adjustment hole and around the drums.
Good luck and let's hear if you are successful.
Hilmar.

[Hilarius]

If you don't want to cut the hoses, you can, of course, also unscrew the lines at the wheel brake cylinders.
H.

[Cadman-iac]

If you don't want to cut the hoses, you can, of course, also unscrew the lines at the wheel brake cylinders.
H.

On the front lines,  don't you have to first remove the hard line from the other end before you can remove the flex line from the wheel cylinder? I know that is how I had to do it on my 56, but it may be different on yours.

Rick

[TJ Hopland]

Are any of the brake parts hard to get for a 49 or especially expensive?   That would be a question I want an answer to before I start really beating and cutting on stuff.   If there are especially hard to get or expensive parts I would want to know that going in and take special consideration into saving those possibly at the expense of other parts.

How about just hiring a tow company to come out with a flatbed and take it somewhere where you can work on it that doesn't have a busy street right out side the door?   Even if that is 100 feet from where it is now?    Tow truck won't have any problem blocking traffic and will be able to do it faster than you would be able to do it without a flatbed.  Wheels not turning should not be a problem they often just drag cars onto the truck.   Who knows they may break free when they pull it onto the truck and you will have 2 problems solved for the price of one.

[49Fleetwood]

Here's a picture with the drum off. It is not of a 49 but of a 1940-75 model, but the differences are small if existent.
The uncle said that after prolonged standstill a child put the brake pedal down and ever since the wheels are solid.
Now, it happens with old brake hoses that they swell up over time and when you put the brake down the pressure still goes through the hoses and expands the brakes but the brake springs are unable to return the shoes through the swelled brake hoses.
I propose to cut the brake hoses, as you won't be using them anymore, anyway, thus relieve pressure and then try to tap off the brake drums from the shoes with the help of rust solvent or some WD40 sprayed into the brakes via the adjustment hole and around the drums.
Good luck and let's hear if you are successful.
Hilmar.

Hilmar, thank you for the info and the photo's.
i have no problem with cutting the brake hoses they are rotten anyway, i didn't do that because i thought there would not be any pressure after al these years.
But i will definitely try that.
And i will tell you if it works.

[Cadman-iac]

More than likely what has happened is that the brake fluid has evaporated over the years and the cylinder pistons have corroded in place, locking the brakes in place, so cutting the hoses probably won't do much, if anything.
I have never had one lock up so bad that it wouldn't release with just backing off the adjustment.
Something that you might try is heating up the drums with a small propane torch to get the shoes to break loose. But before you start heating, back off the adjusters first. If they are adjusted out to the point that the shoes are in contact, even if the heating breaks the shoes free, they will still be pressed against the drums. They need to be broken free and backed off to allow the wheels to turn freely.
Just a suggestion.

Rick

[49Fleetwood]

Are any of the brake parts hard to get for a 49 or especially expensive?   That would be a question I want an answer to before I start really beating and cutting on stuff.   If there are especially hard to get or expensive parts I would want to know that going in and take special consideration into saving those possibly at the expense of other parts.

How about just hiring a tow company to come out with a flatbed and take it somewhere where you can work on it that doesn't have a busy street right out side the door?   Even if that is 100 feet from where it is now?    Tow truck won't have any problem blocking traffic and will be able to do it faster than you would be able to do it without a flatbed.  Wheels not turning should not be a problem they often just drag cars onto the truck.   Who knows they may break free when they pull it onto the truck and you will have 2 problems solved for the price of one.

Tj, thats the reason i'm here.
There are no new brake drums available as far as i can see.
The idea is to put a car trailer behind a big tractor and set it at an angle, then with another tractor pull the car on the trailer.
Because the winch cannot take the weight of the car, in europe most cars are small
maybe if both front wheels turn it's enough to drag it on?

[49Fleetwood]

More than likely what has happened is that the brake fluid has evaporated over the years and the cylinder pistons have corroded in place, locking the brakes in place, so cutting the hoses probably won't do much, if anything.
I have never had one lock up so bad that it wouldn't release with just backing off the adjustment.
Something that you might try is heating up the drums with a small propane torch to get the shoes to break loose. But before you start heating, back off the adjusters first. If they are adjusted out to the point that the shoes are in contact, even if the heating breaks the shoes free, they will still be pressed against the drums. They need to be broken free and backed off to allow the wheels to turn freely.
Just a suggestion.

Rick

thank you for the reply Rick.
the hoses are far gone so i will try it.
the problem is i cant get the ajuster to turn.
its getting soaked wd40 for a couple of days now but stil stuck.

[Cadman-iac]

I was just going to suggest removing the axles on the rear,  but the nuts are on the inside of the drums, so that's not an option.
On an axle with a rear cover and "C" clip axle shafts, that can be done. But not on a front loaded axle assembly.
Instead of WD40, you may want to try a different penetrating oil. WD40 isn't really a good penetrant. Something like PB Blaster,  or Mouse Milk was mentioned in another thread. If you can get Acetone, you can mix it with transmission fluid in a 50/50 mix if I remember it right. I've looked at too many threads the last few days I can't remember which one that was mentioned in.
However if you try a search for Mouse Milk it may come up.
Other than that I don't have any ideas about how to get them to loosen up. At this point just getting the adjusters freed is the only thing that I can think of. From there it should be straightforward.
I wish you luck in your efforts. Keep us posted on your progress.

Rick

[Hilarius]

I also think that you need to turn the adjusters.
Cutting the hoses may take some pressure off the brake shoes but these are probably rusted solid with the drums and the insides of the wheel cylinders as well.
So try to loosen the adjusters, which I think must be possible, with a screwdriver and a hammer if needs be, to give the shoes some room and then heat the outside of the drum so it will expand, thus breaking the lockup. You might then be able to turn the drums (maybe with a lever) back and forth a trifle at a time and proceed from there.
H.

[TJ Hopland]

I missed the detail that he is in the Netherlands.   That does change the complexity and parts availability a bit. 

Could you make skis?   Some big flat but slightly flexible sheets then put sand on the ground below and in front of the path?   Set the tires down on the skis and maybe it would drag easier than on the non rotating tires?

[49Fleetwood]

I cut the brake hose but there was no brake fluid in there.
The PB Blaster and Mouse Milk is not available here.
i am still soaking and trying to get the ajusters to turn, and i wil let you all now if it works.

[49Fleetwood]

I missed the detail that he is in the Netherlands.   That does change the complexity and parts availability a bit. 

Could you make skis?   Some big flat but slightly flexible sheets then put sand on the ground below and in front of the path?   Set the tires down on the skis and maybe it would drag easier than on the non rotating tires?

Yes thats probably whats going to happen, trying to drag it on that way.
But i hope at least to get the front wheel turning.

[signart]

Most likely the shoes are rusted to the drums. Knock as much dry rust as you can from inside the drums. Then get as much penetrating oil from the back side in side the drum onto the shoes that you can, all while rapping on the lip of the drum with a brass or lead hammer. A block of oak might be a good sub between the drum and iron hammer. Go all the way around, soak, tap. If it comes off a little, soak with oil and tap it back on and repeat. The moisture over the years from the barn is the culprit. Can't tell you how many times I've been through this. If the axle is rusted to the center of the drum, a torch will expand the drum and it will come off.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Years ago when I picked up a 1966 SDV for parts, the tyres were flat, and this allowed the car to be closer to the ground.

The wheels wouldn't turn either, so we had to drag it up onto the trailer using a 10,000 Lb winch, and it turned out to be that the bottom of the brake drums had filled with dirt that had found its' way into there when the ground became sodden, through rain, and being parked in the same place for years.

Removing the wheels, and constant bashing of the drums gradually dislodged the mess, and was eventually able to remove the drums.

But, with the OP's car, being in a barn, it could be that wind-blown dust could have got in there.   As we all know, dust will get into EVERYTHING.

Bruce.

[Bob Hoffmann CLC#96]

Guys,
He has another really BIG problem . The rear  drums are  a hub & drum which require a special puller. Hard to do on a good day with drums that are free. I wish him luck.
Bob