64 (or 65) saver - prepping for the project

[R Vander Schaaf]

Well I've finally set a date to start this project.  My mother in law has a 1964 (maybe a 65) sedan de ville that has been garaged (in Santa Cruz, CA but not "on the beach") but not run since early the early or mid 90's.  She said it's mine if I want it a couple years ago, now I'm finally going to make good on the offer and attempt to make it run, but then put it back in the garage since I don't room to store it down in Los Angeles.  Mechanically I am pretty good, old vehicle wise less experienced, but I have a good set of tools and understand the basics, just not the particulars of this car.


The good: It's all there, it's been covered, it was a sunday driver and the first owner (in-laws late brother) was an enthusiast so he cared for it.
The Bad: What's all there?! No one knows why it was parked, something broke, she remembers that, she lost the keys.

Reading the forums, my pre fixit parts list is something like this, let me know if I am missing anything.
1. shop manual - can I get a 64 manual and if it turns out to be a 65 still be okay?
2. water pump
3. ignition stuff, wires, plugs, umm I guess this thing has points? Distributor stuff
4. oil filter, does trans have a filter?
5. all the fluids and some pb blaster/mystery oil/cleaners for carb and engine

any thing I am missing

[Cadman-iac]

Vander,
 One possible problem is the transmission. For 64 it would have been a Hydromatic 4 speed,  but for 65 a Turbo 400. And the filters are not the same.
 As for the rest, you should be fine.

Rick

[jagbuxx #12944]

Vander,
 One possible problem is the transmission. For 64 it would have been a Hydromatic 4 speed,  but for 65 a Turbo 400. And the filters are not the same.
 As for the rest, you should be fine.

Rick

as a correction, the Turbo 400 trans was introduced in ‘64 for deVille, 60 Special and Eldorado series...old Hydramatic still in Series 62.

[Cadman-iac]

as a correction, the Turbo 400 trans was introduced in ‘64 for deVille, 60 Special and Eldorado series...old Hydramatic still in Series 62.

I stand corrected.  Thank you for that.  I thought that the 400 began in 64, but someone had told me once that the Cadillac still used the Hydromatic.  I was unaware that they split the models usage  between them.

Rick

 I might add that the first 400's had an unusual filter, but I'm not sure if it was a one year only thing or carried over to 65.

[64\/54Cadillacking]

Yes that’s true, the 64 Deville and Fleetwoods used the Turbo 400, while the Series 62 used the old Hydra-Matic.

It’s a odd ball year since I believe the bell housing on the 64 Turbo 400 is unique to 64 ONLY, and won’t fit on the later Cadillacs.

For instance you can’t mate a 65-67 Cadillac turbo 400 trans in a 64 429 engine bell housing unless you rip a 65-67 engine and install it in a 64. This is exactly what happened on my 64.

Someone installed an 67 429 engine, and a 65 Cadillac Turbo 400 in my 64!!!

It worked, with some obvious modifications because the frames are different between 64/65 motor mount points.

[R Vander Schaaf]

Alrighty thanks everyone, I am planning the start date for around August 22 so I have some time to gather supplies and see if anyone in the family has pics of the car/definitely knows the model year.  I really hope to gleam why the car broke down or was parked indefinitely in the first place.  Also its "buried" in the garage so I might only get as far as dragging it out on this first attempt. 

Outta curiosity, for rolling/pushing this thing, can I "shift" the trans to neutral and release the parking brake without the car running or having power?  Ima manual transmission guy and all my vehicles parking brakes have had cables.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

By releasing the bark brake, and shifting out of Park, the car can be pushed anywhere.

Don't forget that you can manually release the Park Brake without the engine running.

Bruce.

[Cadman-iac]

Vander,
 One simple way to tell the year is to look at the headlights. If they are side by side then it's a 64, if they are stacked one above the other, then it's a 65.
 I don't know why I hadn't thought about that initially. It's obvious as soon as you see the front of the car.
 If you only have a picture of the rear,  then the difference is the 64 has a small fin light above the bumper,  the 65 lights are all in the bumper. 65 was the first year that the bumper ends went top to bottom of the quarter panel.

 Hope that will help you identify what you have. Best of luck.

Rick

[Roger Zimmermann]

The VIN is telling that too!

[R Vander Schaaf]

Excellent news on the parking brake and trans for rolling it out of the garage, I'm asking the fam for pics to see if I can get a view of the front or rear, so far only a side profile shot and it's kinda blurry.

Cheers,
Reed

[Cadman-iac]

If you can see the rear side of the car does it have a small fin on top with a taillight lens visible, or does the bumper chrome go to the top of the quarter panel?
 And as Roger mentioned,  you can check the vehicle ID number. Have a family member copy it down for you if they can see it.

Rick

[R Vander Schaaf]

Quick update, Mother-in-law told me she remembers the owner's manual had a picture of a women dressed with similar style as Jackie Kennedy so now after a quick google search for owners manuals from 64 vs 65 I am thinking it's a 65.  The 64 manual images show a drivers view with a women at the wheel and the 65 manual looks to have a couple standing behind the car.  The women looks the part. Of course still waiting for a good pic of the car.

[Jason Edge]

As Rick posted just look at the front of the car.. .64 Sedan de Ville has headlights side by side 65 Sedan de Ville has headlights stacked. Here's a 64 and a 65.  Absolute way to know which specific body style is to look at the VIN # on engine block and on frame.  For 64's you can find info on VIN #'s, at www.vin.6364cadillac.com

As far as "owners manual" neither the 1964 or 1965 manual shows a woman by the car. I think you are pulling up one of the sale brochures or mailers. In 1964 alone there were 2 brochures and 2 mailers... the mailers being quite different from the regular and presitige brochures.

1964 and 1965 Sedan de Ville







1964 and 1965 Owners Manuals

[35-709]

Is there no paperwork at all for the car?  No title, no registration that your M-I-L can look at?  Either one of those documents will tell the year of the car.  If there is no title, you are already in for a tough time getting the car on the road before you even get it running.

[Lexi]

Is it me, or is it hard not to just love the look of a '65 Caddy? There is a hint of '50s, a chunk of '60s as well as a look to the 70s styling all in one. Clay/Lexi

[Cadman-iac]

Is it me, or is it hard not to just love the look of a '65 Caddy? There is a hint of '50s, a chunk of '60s as well as a look to the 70s styling all in one. Clay/Lexi

 It's you Clay. No doubt. (JUST KIDDING!!!)
 Yes,  I've always liked the stacked look of the headlamps. All of GM's models look really cool with this feature. But that's just me, right? LOL!

[R Vander Schaaf]

Everyone,

I'm going to start a new thread next week when I get to the vehicle, I have confirmed it is a 1965.  I think I have the keys, maybe there wrong but I am hopeful.

Cheers,
Reed

[R Vander Schaaf]

Last pic I'll post on this thread, hopefully a week from tomorrow we will have fresh content as I dig this car out of it's 26 year hibernation.

My plan has been simplified, clear, remove, drain/renue, clean, start.  Next opportunity to drive will be winter so I'll probably do my best to lay it up well until then.

[cadillacmike68]

Looks like a bumper end from a 65 - 66 in that pile.

[35-709]

   '65, what a pile!