Manual transmission use

[Cadman-iac]

I have often wondered just how many years did Cadillac use a manual transmission in their vehicles, and when was it last available, both as a standard part, and also as a special order part.
Were there cars in the 50's, 60's and 70's that ever had one put in from the factory? And if so,  what transmission would have been used, a 3 speed, or 4?

Rick

[fishnjim]

http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=129790.0

It's reported you can/could get 6 speed manual in the CT4-5-Vs.   The LT5 based supercharged monster engine.   I'd own one if they weren't so pricey.   But would cause a lot of neck strain to the other drivers, when they oogled some old guy as he fried his Cads tires and blew them off.

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Hydromatic first became optionally available on Cadillac in 1941 for $110 with a 30 percent installation rate that year. It remained optional until becoming standard equipment in 1952 (standard models); 1953 on Series 75 and probably the Commercial Chassis where it may have lasted even longer.

Have heard of at least one case where manual was special ordered on a 1952 and I'm sure there may have been others as it was still considered a novelty by some.

Manual transmission would not appear again in a "Cadillac" until the Cimarron was introduced in the 1982 model year. (Quotes used for obvious reasons).

[Barry M Wheeler #2189]

1953 was the "last" year you could order a standard transmission. Until the exceptions showed up that have been mentioned already.

Lars Kneller has a manual transmission in his low mileage 1995 Cadillac. (I'm too lazy to pull out the Directory and check the model #.) It is a cool car. It's a bright red. I rode in it to Chicago to a Board Meeting one time. As I recall, it rides like a truck, especially when you hit a pothole at speed.

[Cadman-iac]

Thanks for the information Eric, I wasn't aware they stopped using them that early.
I have often wondered about it though. I used to have a 68 Pontiac Catalina with the TH400, but had heard of a few that had a standard transmission in them from the factory. That's why it stuck in my mind. I figured if Pontiac had done it once in a while, maybe Cadillac would have too, as a special order.
Can you imagine a 69 or 70 or whatever with a three in the tree? It does sound a little weird huh?
It would be like having a Cadillac without A/C. There were a few of those out there somewhere, rare, but not extinct. Maybe somebody has converted one once just to be different.
But you have answered my question. And I can see why they quit using them. Like someone else said, why would you want one in a Cadillac anyway, (except for the newer ones that is). Thanks for the reply.

Rick

[Cadman-iac]

1953 was the "last" year you could order a standard transmission. Until the exceptions showed up that have been mentioned already.

Lars Kneller has a manual transmission in his low mileage 1995 Cadillac. (I'm too lazy to pull out the Directory and check the model #.) It is a cool car. It's a bright red. I rode in it to Chicago to a Board Meeting one time. As I recall, it rides like a truck, especially when you hit a pothole at speed.

A 95 Brougham? Or something else? That's interesting. And odd. It would be interesting to see how it was engineered. Thanks.

Rick

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Not to differ with Barry who has my utmost respect but according to the 1952 sales brochure, Hydromatic was standard equipment on all 1952 models, optional at extra cost on Series 75.

I wouldn't be surprised in manual could still be special ordered- even up to several years after it had been "officially" discontinued.

[Brad Ipsen CLC #737]

In the parts book it list parts up to 53.  The same transmission was used from 38 with a few (very few) internal changes.

[Barry M Wheeler #2189]

Eric, I should have explained that the three speed manual transmission would have been the S/O, not Hydramatic which was standard in 1953.

[Cadman-iac]

Barry, that 95 you rode in, did it have a column shift or a floor shift? And was it a 3 or 4 speed? I'm just trying to picture it.

[Jay Friedman]

As

In the parts book it list parts up to 53.  The same transmission was used from 38 with a few (very few) internal changes.

I did some research on this some years ago for a Self-Starter article. 

1949 was the last year a manual transmission was standard equipment in all model Cadilacs, with Hydramatic being an extra-cost option.  About 4% of the 92K+ Cadillacs manufactured in '49 had a manual transmission.

In 1950 and '51, Hydramatic was standard equipment on Series 60 Fleetwoods and Series 62, with a manual transmission still being standard equipment on Series 61, Series 75 limos and Commercial vehicles (hearses, ambulances). 

In 1952 and '53, Hydramatic was standard equipment on all models except Series 75 limos and Commercial vehicles.  Matt Larsen did some research on '53 Cadillacs and found and found about half the 2,000 or so Commercial vehicles and 19 passenger cars of 100K+ manufactured had a manual transmission. 

[Bob Schuman]

I'm pretty sure the 95 Cadillac of Lars Kneller that Barry referred to, is actually a 2005 CTS-V, as listed for Lars in the CLC Directory.  The first generation V was offered from 2004 through 2007 model years, and was available ONLY with a six speed manual transmission, no automatic offered, and a 400 hp V8, essentially the Corvette engine. This was probably because Cadillac did not want their "typical" Cadillac buyer to buy one as the most expensive CTS model, and be sadly disappointed to find they had bought a very high performance sport sedan with a stiff ride, terrific acceleration, and lacking the attributes of Cadillac's big soft riding models.  It was definitely aimed at a much younger customer than other models. I had one and loved it for five years, still have not outgrown the love of high performance cars.

Starting with the 2009 model (there was no 2008 CTS-V) it was supercharged, 556 hp, automatic or six speed manual, then in 2015 hp went up to 640, definitely not intended as an old person's car.

[jdemerson]

Not to differ with Barry who has my utmost respect but according to the 1952 sales brochure, Hydromatic was standard equipment on all 1952 models, optional at extra cost on Series 75.

I wouldn't be surprised in manual could still be special ordered- even up to several years after it had been "officially" discontinued.

Just to confirm the above. According to the 1953 Cadillac Data Book, and Cadillac's 1953 AMA filing, manual transmission was available only on the Series 75 models (where it was still standard). Possibly the manual transmission could still be special ordered on regular models in 1953. The 1954 Data Book and AMA filings do not show any availability of manual transmissions on any model including the Series 75s. I have never heard of a 1954 or later Cadillac (through 1981) being ordered or available with a manual transmission. Of course anything is possible, especially with Cadillac.

I'm not so interested in 1980s Cimarrons, though I don't wish to offend anyone.

John Emerson
1952 Cadillac Sedan 6219X

[Jay Friedman]

In 1953 a  manual transmission was available on Series 75 as well as on Commercial vehicles--that is, hearses and ambulances.  Besides about half of the 2,000 hearses and ambulances, 19 regular passenger cars were built with a manual transmission.  Of the 19, a few were Series 75 and the rest were special orders on Series 62 and 60 Fleetwoods.  Matt Larsen found this out some years ago by going through all 100K + build sheets for '53 (really!) while doing research on '53 Eldorados. 

[D.Yaros]

Not a Cadillac, but I owned a 1960 Oldsmobile Super 88 with a factory three-on-the tree.  Yes, it was a special order item.

[Jay Friedman]

In

Not a Cadillac, but I owned a 1960 Oldsmobile Super 88 with a factory three-on-the tree.  Yes, it was a special order item.

In 1960 I had a summer job as a mechanic in an Olds dealer in NY.  One of our customers had a '60 Olds black 4-door with a blue interior which had a manual transmission.  I remember it well because I did some minor work on it.  This is a long shot, as there were very few '60 Oldsmobiles with stick shift, but could it have been the same car? 

[GBrown #8092]

As several others have mentioned, the last year (prior to the CTS) that Cadillac offered manual transmissions was 1953.  Per the April '04 Self Starter (referencing the August '03 issue), only 19 consumer 1953's were built with manual transmissions: 2-6019s, 4-6219's, 3-6237s, 4-7523s, and 7-7533s.   However for the first half of 1953 most of the 2005 Series 86 (commercial chassis) built had manual transmissions.

I have seen several last generation (94-96) Fleetwood Broughams with 6 sp manual transmissions. However, they are customer modified cars.  They are rather awkward (though fun) to drive, as are most of the GM B-body conversions (mostly, Impala SSs and Caprice 9-C1s) of that vintage, as without floor modifications the clutch pedal is very high and much further left than is comfortable for most people.

Glenn

[TJ Hopland]

I have a friend with a 70 Cutlass / 442 with a 4 speed.  Apparently it was rare enough for them that there wasn't a hole in the floor pan for the shifter,  it was torch cut.   When I saw that I assumed it was a conversion but apparently that was factory. 

[V63]

Worth mention the engine block changed in 1954 and would no longer accept the manual transmission.

[Jay Friedman]

Worth mention the engine block changed in 1954 and would no longer accept the manual transmission.

V63,

Actually, the engine block change you mention was made in 1955.  Although on 1954 and later Cads an automatic transmission was standard equipment, a '54 block could still be used in an earlier car with a manual transmission.  Interestingly, in my 1955 Parts List a 1954 "Service Replacement Engine Syncro-Mesh Trans" is listed with unit numbers "9T1 and up".  I wonder how many such engines were manufactured?  There is no such listing for '55.