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1958 Brakes Pulling left

Started by wbdeford, June 29, 2020, 06:15:50 AM

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wbdeford

My car started pulling left during braking and one time when I had to brake hard, there was a loud bang, perhaps from overcoming whatever was preventing the right side from braking properly(?).  I pulled the front drums and the shoes and hardware look good.  Sticking wheel cylinder?  Other possibilities?
1958 Sedan de Ville

Past:
1956 Fleetwood 75 Sedan
1957 Fleetwood 60 Special
1958 Miller-Meteor Futura Landau Duplex
1960 Coupe de Ville
1966 De Ville Convertible
1970 De Ville Convertible
1971 Eldorado Convertible
1979 Sedan de Ville
1980 Seville

bcroe

Brake systems age, strange things happen inside though the external
appearance may be fine.  You might have a hose or cylinder problem. 
When I have a system even half that age, I replace everything that
touches brake fluid, to avoid problems with this critical system. 
good luck, Bruce Roe

als58caddy

I've had this issue or similar issues on classic and modern cars. A good way of looking for the cause is to get the car raised up and have some one apply the brakes as you rotate each wheel in turn, this lets you feel how each brake drum slows as the brake is applied. From memory there is no self adjustment on the '58 so the shoes may just need adjusted as per the manual so they start touching the drum at the same time when the brake is applied.

It may be a sticky cylinder too and when your testing the brakes keep an eye on the brake hose as they can soften and bulge when old and this could also be a cause of problems.

hope this helps a bit and if i can think of anything else i'll reply :)

Cheers,
Alasdair :)
1958 Cadillac 4 Door Sedan
2005 Alfa Romeo 156SW 1.9JTDm
2005 Alfa Romeo 147 2.0TS

signart

Often times when this happens, the rubber brake hose delaminates internally and collapses blocking the flow of fluid.
If this is the case, replace both hoses.
Art D. Woody

wbdeford

I applied the brakes with the drums off and found that on the left side, both shoes were pushed outward, but on the right side, only the rear shoe moved.  Does that indicate an issue with the front piston on the right wheel cylinder, or is that just a matter of a slight difference in resistance?
1958 Sedan de Ville

Past:
1956 Fleetwood 75 Sedan
1957 Fleetwood 60 Special
1958 Miller-Meteor Futura Landau Duplex
1960 Coupe de Ville
1966 De Ville Convertible
1970 De Ville Convertible
1971 Eldorado Convertible
1979 Sedan de Ville
1980 Seville

Omarine

this sounds like a good opportunity to change at least both wheel cylinders and hoses, the parts are cheap enough for the peace of mind...
1949 Harley Davidson FL
1952 Cadillac Coupe de Ville
1961 Chevy Impala 2 dr hardtop

wbdeford

Yes, I might do that anyway, but would still like to know the exact cause if I can.
1958 Sedan de Ville

Past:
1956 Fleetwood 75 Sedan
1957 Fleetwood 60 Special
1958 Miller-Meteor Futura Landau Duplex
1960 Coupe de Ville
1966 De Ville Convertible
1970 De Ville Convertible
1971 Eldorado Convertible
1979 Sedan de Ville
1980 Seville

35-709

#7
Usually, when a brake hose fails internally, it does not let the brake fluid return when the brake is released and that brake will drag --- not to say that is true 100% of the time.  I believe it is a good possibility that the piston is hanging up/frozen in the brake cylinder but you are going to have to take it apart to find out.  Absolutely the brake cylinders and hoses should be replaced if it hasn't been done in a long time and/or if you do not know when it was last done --- right along with a system flush and fresh fluid.  The parts are cheap and the system is too critical not to. 
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

wbdeford

I put it back together and now the problem is different....it isn't pulling, but there's pulsating when applying the brakes, and some noise when it's just rolling.  Does that shed any more light on it?  I'm pretty sure the brakes were last done in 1998, and it has had about 10,000 miles since then.  Plenty of lining left on the shoes, and the fluid has been flushed probably 3 times in that time, the last being maybe 3 years ago.

As of now, the plan is to buy new wheel cylinders, hoses, and hardware kit, in case spring weakness might be contributing to this.  Will also repack the wheel bearings, or possibly replace them since I have a spare set.

1958 Sedan de Ville

Past:
1956 Fleetwood 75 Sedan
1957 Fleetwood 60 Special
1958 Miller-Meteor Futura Landau Duplex
1960 Coupe de Ville
1966 De Ville Convertible
1970 De Ville Convertible
1971 Eldorado Convertible
1979 Sedan de Ville
1980 Seville

The Tassie Devil(le)

A pulsating pedal is an indication of the drum/s being out of round.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

fishnjim

Still running with the bendix master?   If memory serves, you had one.   That's got a humongous spring in it, so if it stuck it would make a bang on release.
If you flush/bleed the lines, the wheel cylinders can still have crud accumulated in them at the end caps or one side can be frozen...   
Brake fluid turns to solid with age.   I'd pull everything and go through it, our life's at stake.   
ps: pulling in the age of no self adjusters is just life.   Periodic adjustments are needed, more frequent than 10k or 22 years.   Any wear reduces the adjustment.

TJ Hopland

Does pulling to the left mean that the right is weak?
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

wbdeford

TJ....yes, pulling left tends to indicate a problem with the right side.

Jim....Delco Moraine master, but it isn't the problem. 

Bruce....it wasn't your typical pulsation....

After yesterday's newly really bad driving, I took a closer look at the suspension.  I think the loud noise was the sound of the lower ball joint suddenly becoming very loose.  I'm guessing lifting and dropping the car made it even worse still.  There is a ridiculous amount of play in it.  That's the first thing I have to fix now.  Then I will get back to the brakes.  I knew I wasn't going to be able to make the original suspension last forever, especially with the dried out rubber, so I guess now's the time to start addressing it.  I want do a full suspension rebuild, but I'm thinking I will just do the ball joint now and the rest over next winter....I don't want it out of commission long at this time of year, and I tend to take a very long time with that type of project.
1958 Sedan de Ville

Past:
1956 Fleetwood 75 Sedan
1957 Fleetwood 60 Special
1958 Miller-Meteor Futura Landau Duplex
1960 Coupe de Ville
1966 De Ville Convertible
1970 De Ville Convertible
1971 Eldorado Convertible
1979 Sedan de Ville
1980 Seville

The Tassie Devil(le)

Mentioning of the ball joint problem could be the problem.

As you brake, the suspension moves at the loose part, thereby resulting in a sudden change in wheel alignment.

Sudden toe-in or toe-out could lead to such a "pulling" especially when braking hard.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

wbdeford

Bruce, that's a better description of what was going on than when I said "pulsating".
1958 Sedan de Ville

Past:
1956 Fleetwood 75 Sedan
1957 Fleetwood 60 Special
1958 Miller-Meteor Futura Landau Duplex
1960 Coupe de Ville
1966 De Ville Convertible
1970 De Ville Convertible
1971 Eldorado Convertible
1979 Sedan de Ville
1980 Seville

fishnjim

Never fails.   What they suspect online isn't the problem???

You still got that spare '58 tranny?

wbdeford

Quote from: fishnjim on July 02, 2020, 09:22:13 AM
You still got that spare '58 tranny?

Yes....still sitting in my garage.
1958 Sedan de Ville

Past:
1956 Fleetwood 75 Sedan
1957 Fleetwood 60 Special
1958 Miller-Meteor Futura Landau Duplex
1960 Coupe de Ville
1966 De Ville Convertible
1970 De Ville Convertible
1971 Eldorado Convertible
1979 Sedan de Ville
1980 Seville