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Front disk brak conversion on '53

Started by Brett S, July 29, 2020, 10:48:46 AM

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Brett S

Has anyone done a front disk brake conversion using the original 15" wheels on a '53?

I've looked at the ScareBird but communication isn't that great. They can't give a definitive yes or no if their kit will work.

I'm courious to see what has to be done to make their kit work. Or of there is a kit our there that definitely works.

Thanks
Brett Samanns

carlhungness

http://www.discbrakemike.com/

He has a kit for your car for about $365 and he will be able to tell you about wheel fitment.

TJ Hopland

It looks like 'Mike' is using the same rotors as everyone else and he says like everyone else they won't work with pre 1970 wheels.     Just measure the inside of your wheel.   He says the smallest rotor is 11.625" and I would say you need at least another 3/4" for the caliper and some clearance.  .625 is 5/8  or 3/4 is .75 so    12.375" or 12 3/8"  and that is the small rotor.... could be the bigger one.    There can also be a clearance issue where the web part rivets to the rim part with both the web and rivet thinckness hitting the edge of the caliper. 

Technical Information

All kits:

# REQUIREMENT #

New steel or aftermarket wheel designed to accept a conventional 15” disc brake application will be required. Calipers need to be able to clear the wheel cup. Older design (Pre 1970) 15” stock steel wheels will not fit. 14” wheels even with a 5”x5” bolt pattern will not fit your car. Please make sure you are clear on this subject BEFORE you order. Thank you.

Comes with either an 11.625” or 11.850” (1.29” thick) rotor based on application by year with standard 5”x5” GM lug pattern. Bearings and seals to match.
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Omarine

Im also interested for my 52. What i can tell you is that it might take changing 1/4 “lines to 3/16” depending on caliper piston size.

Also, trying to upgrade with scarebird bracket and wilwood dual remote MC just convinced me to stay stock despite wanting that peace of mind...

Cheers
Oscar
1949 Harley Davidson FL
1952 Cadillac Coupe de Ville
1961 Chevy Impala 2 dr hardtop

Brett S

The widest part of the inside of the wheel measures around 14 9/16" across. It's keeps that measurement for about an inch and a quarter inward then it tapers down as it get closer to the center.
I don't know where on the wheel that caliber actually sits to measure at. If it sits towards the outer most part of the wheel, then it'll fit. If not then it'll probably be into the tapered area of the wheel...
Brett Samanns

walt chomosh #23510

Hi guys!  I put discs on the front of my 55CDV using scarecrow brackets and everything else NAPA. My wheels are after market spoked wheels and I MAY have been able to clear the caliper by some grinding on them but machined some aluminum spacers (their cheap to buy) as much as I hated to. I ended up somewhere near 1/4 inch which I could live with. I also used 3/16 brake lines in the front (1/4 rear) retaining the "hydro boost". I even played with my brake pedal ratio in the process in an effort to please myself. Wilwood remote fill MC. (1 inch).....walt...tulsa,ok

Omarine

Hi Walt, that’s excellent you got the scarbird bracket to work. Wouod you happen to have any pictures? Been ripping my hair out over it on my 52...

Regards
Oscar
1949 Harley Davidson FL
1952 Cadillac Coupe de Ville
1961 Chevy Impala 2 dr hardtop

TJ Hopland

Not a good sign if Walt had to use spacers with aftermarket wheels.

I would say that the face of the caliper is barely going to go past the bolt surface but other than a slight curve its gonna be full height within about 1/2" of the bolt face so where you would be measuring is pretty much against the bolt face.
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Brett S

I'd like to see some pictures also. I just talked to Mike from Mike'sdisk brake,  seems like the issue is the OEM wheel. They taper inward. Which doesn't let the rotor and caliber fit inside the wheel. He says you need a disk brake wheel, which doesn't taper in....
I'd like to see what you grinded and how much of a wheel spacer you used....
Brett Samanns

walt chomosh #23510

Hi guys,....in my case, I ran Chevy truck wheels for a while before moving to USA made spoke wheels. I have 5ea 1955 OEM wheels but can't remember if they fit W/O a spacer. (not sure if I tried them)....walt...tulsa,ok

Cadman-iac

I wanted to go with disc brakes on my 56, but I also wanted to keep my original hubcaps, which meant using the original wheels.
The problem with a newer wheel is the design of the wheel center. The original has a reverse dish to allow the deep hubcaps to mount to it.
I have considered trying to swap the centers from my original wheels into a newer wheel,  but the problem,  besides the obvious,  is that all wheel centers are not the same diameter. I have probably 90 to 100 wheels all totalled, from many different years and vehicles, and none of them have the same center section diameter as the original 56 wheels. Even later years of Cadillac wheels with the reverse dish center are different from the disc brake wheels.
I can't speak for everyone,  but it seems to me that the biggest complaint that most people have with a conversion to discs is that they can't use the original hubcaps.
I finally decided to just upgrade my drums to the later 60's style and add self adjusters and a split master cylinder, and go with a semi-metallic shoe material.
I did that with one of my 64 Chevy trucks years ago before I converted it to discs about 8 years later. The performance was not as good as discs, but it was definitely better than the original brakes.
Unfortunately I don't remember exactly where I got the semi-metallic shoes, as that was almost 30 years ago.
But if you are willing to give up your hubcaps, discs are a great upgrade.

Rick
CLC# 32373
1956 Coupe Deville A/C car "Norma Jean"

TJ Hopland

It seems like its just us weirdos that want to stop but also like stock wheels and hubcaps.   Seems like all other car enthusiasts either don't need to stop that often or like aftermarket wheels.

Has anyone ever called a custom wheel place and asked how much it would cost to make a set of wheels that fit a stock hubcap and maybe had the white wall built in?   You would then use a modern common 17 or 18" tire.   
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Cadman-iac

I thought about that,  but the cost has got to be prohibitive. If I were to do that,  I would have it made to match the original hubcaps, since that's the hang-up anyway.
You see that being done on those shows on the motor trend channel. That would be great if you could afford it. But....

Rick
CLC# 32373
1956 Coupe Deville A/C car "Norma Jean"

Brett S

From talking to a few brake companies, you can't have both, disk brake AND stock wheels. You need to pick one.
I'm keeping the stock wheel since I just bought new tires.


Anyone that has gone to power brakes with drum/drum, what size booster did you use? What master cylinder?
I have an 8" dual diaphragm booster with a '68 Vette dual chamber master cylinder and the brakes suck. Theres no air in the lines. 18 inch of vacuum. And I have to put the pedal to the floor to stop. I can't figure out what's off, booster to small? Wrong master cylinder?
Brett Samanns

Omarine

As for the pedal going to the floor to stop, are you sure the booster rod and bore depth match?

In other words manual brskes have a deep bore before you hit the piston, so rod wouldn't  fall out.

A power brake cylinder has a shallow bore, so the booster push rod doesn't travel far before it starts hitting the piston. If itls mismatched, then the booster willl travel far before hitting the piston. Theres an adapter if in fact this is the case.

As for disk brakes and factory wheels, i just cant accept the notion (yet) that it’s not doable.

What about the lowrider crowd putting disc brakes on 13” wheels?

Have you tried calling ABS brakes in Orange county, CA?

I think they might offer the solution.

Meanwhile im still annoyed i couldn't get the dual wilwood MC to work on my 52. So i just rebuilt the original. Gonna bleed it now,

Cheers
Oscar
1949 Harley Davidson FL
1952 Cadillac Coupe de Ville
1961 Chevy Impala 2 dr hardtop

walt chomosh #23510

Can't speak for any year other then 55, but my hubcaps fit the Chevy truck wheels.....tighter then the 55 wheels but they fit....walt...tulsa,ok

mario

I, too, had a problem. I had bled and bled till the cows came home, but to no avail...spongy pedal. Then I found this two part video:
https://youtu.be/GbdyNwOjScs
Be sure to watch part 2. I followed his directions and viola.....bubbles galore. I now have neck snapping brakes.
1968 deville, scarebird front disc kit. Lincoln 9" rear with disc brakes.  9" booster with a Corvette master that I bench bled before I installed it, but it still had bubbles.
Go figure.
Ciao,
Mario Caimotto

P.s.: my wheels fit with the scarebird kit. Not knowing the history of the car, I don't know if they were 1968 wheels, though.

The Tassie Devil(le)

The big problem I see using the original wheels is the drop-centre of these older wheels is very deep, and interferes with the caliper.

One way to get over this would be to get a late model wheel that will fit, remove the rim and replace the original rim to the new hub.

This way, the original rim will hold the full disc cap, if it is retained around the edge, and the whole shebang will look original.

The secret to this method is finding a pair of wheels that can clear, and match in the drop-centre area.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Brett S

The problem with the wheels is the barrel of the wheel. On modern wheels the barrel stays flat. From the front of the wheel to the back. Picture a 55gal drum cut in half. Then they weld or secure the center of the wheel.
With the OEM wheel, the barrel is not flat. It tapers in, towards the center of the wheel. That is why there is no room for the rotor and caliber.
I know there are companies out there that can take the OEM wheel and cut out the center and put it in the correct barrel for disk brakes, but o don't want to go down that rabbit hole.

The low riders use a 13" wheel but it's the correct barrel wheel. The size of the wheel doesn't matter. It's the style of barrel that is the issue. Smaller wheel just means smaller rotor...

You can't have 1950s OEM wheels and disk brakes........ with out a stupid amount of wheel spacers....
Brett Samanns

Omarine

#19
Brett, thanks for the explanation. So to be sure, the 15” oem barrel of the wheels tapers so much that even a 10” rotor and caliper for a 13” wheel still wont fit?

This is informative for me as well as i was investigating options.

http://www.abspowerbrake.com/maincatalog_frameset.html

Check out this link, page 113.  I just called them to verify their claim but i guess theyre closed already...

Thanks
Oscar
1949 Harley Davidson FL
1952 Cadillac Coupe de Ville
1961 Chevy Impala 2 dr hardtop