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1956 Sedan de Ville VIN

Started by caddyorganist, August 06, 2020, 08:27:17 PM

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caddyorganist

I can't find a VIN anywhere on my engine, or frame. I know where the manual lists those numbers should be, but they're not. The only one I did find was the lubrication chart on the door frame. I did find a number stamped on the manifold, but it starts with 14 rather than 56. I got the car in 1998 and my dad thought the engine had been replaced, but neither of us can remember why he thought that now. Because of that I was hoping to find the VIN on the engine so I could compare it with the lubrication chart. Since I can't find the VIN on the engine, is there any other way to tell if the engine is original? Thanks.

Matt G.
1956 Sedan de Ville
2017 XT5

J. Gomez

Quote from: caddyorganist on August 06, 2020, 08:27:17 PM
I can't find a VIN anywhere on my engine, or frame. I know where the manual lists those numbers should be, but they're not. The only one I did find was the lubrication chart on the door frame. I did find a number stamped on the manifold, but it starts with 14 rather than 56. I got the car in 1998 and my dad thought the engine had been replaced, but neither of us can remember why he thought that now. Because of that I was hoping to find the VIN on the engine so I could compare it with the lubrication chart. Since I can't find the VIN on the engine, is there any other way to tell if the engine is original? Thanks.

Unfortunately those are the only two locations the engine serial aka VIN numbers would be stamped.   :(

Have you try to scraping the paint from the chassis and see if there is something that would show same on the engine side?   ???

If the engine was swap “maybe” the numbers were file by someone for whatever reason, so only other reference if is actually the correct year block would be the engine unit number but that is all you can do.

So you only alternative would be the oil tag on the door frame.  :(

Best luck..!
J. Gomez
CLC #23082

novetti

Post a few photos from your engine so we can look at. We would be able to quickly tell at least if it is the right vintage for the vehicle.

The engine stamp is quite deep so not easy to grind it off. If its there can be buried underneath a cake of dirt sitting on the top or filling the stamp.

54' Iris Blue (Preservation)
54' Cabot Gray (Restoration)
58' Lincoln Continental Convertible (Restoration)
58' Ford Skyliner (Preservation)

Lexi

#3
Sometimes VINs on these cars are lost during an engine rebuild if the block was machined. Jose is right, you may have to scrape the top of the frame clean to see the number there, (as per location noted in the manual). If your car has original AC, the line may be hiding some of it. I was also advised that the number is again replicated on the topside of the frame, passenger side, but back just before the rear wheel. Apparently this number's location is almost impossible to see on an assembled vehicle though. So there are 3 spots. That said, if your block VIN is gone it may not be possible to determine if your engine is "numbers matching" to your car, as Jose noted.

Perhaps there would be a way to associate your engine unit number to your car, but I am not sure. Original bill of sale, build sheet may help date wise. That number is stamped on the rear of the engine's bell housing case area, up top, driver's side. Not a fun place to look. But it can provide some clues as to the type of car the factory installed it in. Perhaps GM Heritage could associate that number to a VIN. Not sure. If it doesn't even match your Series of car as well as other points of comparison, your answer as negative. See pages 1-1  and 1-2 of the shop manual for more details.

If it is really important to you, someone with experience in acid etching may be able to restore the VIN or parts of it. Used to do that work in Forensic Science. For an engine block, I would experiment on an unimportant area using first nitric acid diluted 10% with water. If you are getting good action, stick with that or use full strength. Wipe clean with water, then continue to reapply as required, (using a Q-Tip). Have a camera ready to capture what may come up as any results can also fade from view after a brief appearance, forever. That means camera on a tripod with proper exposure/lighting all ready to go. The numbers can "ghost" quickly, if they come up at all. I imagine that this would be a good candidate for this type of "re-agent", for a number of reasons. They may also come up one at a time, (if they show), rather than all at once due to the degree of micro changes in the structure of the metal below where the numbers were originally stamped. So you got to be ready. Clay/Lexi

Edit: The "14" number you mentioned on the manifold, should read 1464176 for a 1956 Cadillac single 4bbl carb manifold if original to the engine that it is attached to. Clay

Dave H. (CO)

I'm almost positive the door jamb lubrication number is what was used on mine by the local sheriff to verify the vin number. 
1956 Sedan Deville (current)
1966 Coupe Deville (past)
1966 Coupe Deville (past)
many misc. other brands and models

Lexi

Yes, that would be correct, if original to your car. Some jurisdictions have issues with these plates as ours were attached using removable screws. That way, anyone could put any POS there (more easily than a riveted one). Be thankful yours was accepted by the local authorities. Shop manual show a pair of slot screws securing this tag. Clay/Lexi

caddyorganist

After sleeping on it, and looking again, I finally found it. It was hidden by an aftermarket fuel filter! Somewhere along the way a previous owner replaced the fuel pump and lines with non-factory correct parts.

Anyways, I've attached pictures of the numbers. I was surprised to find that the engine has an earlier number than the body.
1956 Sedan de Ville
2017 XT5

caddyorganist

Quote from: lexi on August 07, 2020, 12:13:18 AM


Edit: The "14" number you mentioned on the manifold, should read 1464176 for a 1956 Cadillac single 4bbl carb manifold if original to the engine that it is attached to. Clay

Clay,

That's the number on my manifold, but there's a space and it's followed by a "3."

Matt G.
1956 Sedan de Ville
2017 XT5

Lexi

#8
Hi Matt. I don't think the "3" at the end of your manifold number is related to the 1464176 # cast into the manifold. I believe it is a separate number that perhaps is associated with the plant that made the part. One of my '56 engines did have that "3" cast into the manifold after the part number 1464176, but I have also seen the number "4" cast at the end as well. My current car has a "4" at the end of the manifold part number. The MPL only notes #1464176 as being associated with the 1956 Cadillac, with a single 4 bbl carb. As your lube tag "serial" number (aka VIN) should agree with the stamped number on the upper RH area of the cylinder block, and it does not in your case; then either your engine or lube tag has been swapped at some point in the past. Clay/Lexi

Edit: I am assuming the picture you posted is of the number stamped on the block. Also, you should use some brake clean and look for the number on your frame. As Jose said you may need to do some scraping to be able to see it. That number should agree with that on the engine in your picture, if numbers matching. If not, than your engine has been swapped. If it does agree, than it is your lube tag that has been replaced. The number on the frame should be enclosed between two star like pattern images, for example *123456789*. I mention this as on occasion the last number may be spaced from the main group, BUT is still part of the sequence (unlike the intake manifold # issue discussed).

caddyorganist

Thanks for the on the manifold, Clay. Yes, the number I posted came from the engine block.

I knew the numbers didn't match, but I was hoping the engine was a later number than the body. The car hasn't ran since 2004, and I'm really hoping the heads aren't cracked. I know the earlier 56 cars had issues with that.

Thanks for the info everyone!

Matt G.
1956 Sedan de Ville
2017 XT5

Lexi

Anytime Matt. My research indicates that the change in heads probably took place starting December 23rd, 1955 for the 1956 model year. While cylinder heads were not specifically mentioned in the General Service Letter that reported on engine modifications, it is likely that this included heads. Changes had taken effect starting with "engine serial number 33848". Clay/Lexi

caddyorganist

Quote from: lexi on August 13, 2020, 12:10:39 AM
Changes had taken effect starting with "engine serial number 33848". Clay/Lexi

Thanks for that information. That gives me hope that I won't have some of the issues I've read about in the earlier engines. Now to find the VIN on the frame and see which number it matches.
1956 Sedan de Ville
2017 XT5