AIR pump delete/Pully setup

[Rosie68]

So, I've purchase a built 472 motor with a custom pulley setup that needs to be removed. I'm pulling out my current motor (1968 deville, 472) that has the AIR pump and A/C.

Now I also purchased a 472/500 years ago for parts that does NOT have the AIR pump.

I'm looking to put the non AIR pump pulleys  on the built 472 and I'm not sure if I even have the right parts or where to start. Now, I try to do as much research as possible before asking questions, but basically I'm lost.

The built motor has the Edlebrock high rise intake so I'll have to get that bracket but I'm almost positive I have all the parts I need on the parts motor.

[Rosie68]

The first two pics are of the parts motor, no AIR pump.

The third is my current motor in the car, w/AIR pump & A/C

["Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364]

Kyle,
The motor you show (not the one in your car) is a 74-74 motor judging by the cast pulleys.  Notice first of all that the lower pulley only has two grooves.  One for the Alternator/water pump and the second for the AC/Power steering.  Your motor uses 2 belts for the PS/AC.  If this were the only issue, you could switch the PS pump to a later single belt model and do the same with the AC clutch/pulley.
HOWEVER, with an Edlebrock 2115 intake you cannot use a stock A6 compressor in the stock location. Typically (what I did at the time) was to use an R-4 compressor and the brackets used in the 1980  368 motor.
Greg Surfas

[Rosie68]

Kyle,
The motor you show (not the one in your car) is a 74-74 motor judging by the cast pulleys.  Notice first of all that the lower pulley only has two grooves.  One for the Alternator/water pump and the second for the AC/Power steering.  Your motor uses 2 belts for the PS/AC.  If this were the only issue, you could switch the PS pump to a later single belt model and do the same with the AC clutch/pulley.
HOWEVER, with an Edlebrock 2115 intake you cannot use a stock A6 compressor in the stock location. Typically (what I did at the time) was to use an R-4 compressor and the brackets used in the 1980  368 motor.
Greg Surfas

So your saying I did luck out on the parts motor purchase and the brackets will work?

I'll research the R-4 compressor, but the compressor on the BUILT motor is brand new and might just get adapter bracket from vintage air.

One other thing, I saw someone suggest changing the timing alignment pointer. Any suggestion on that?

["Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364]

Kyle,
Why not just use the pulleys and brackets with the "built" motor? do you have any pictures of that motor?
Greg Surfas

[Rosie68]

It's a one off setup with the water pump running in reverse. Rather have the stock look.

[TJ Hopland]

Ya I too am confused about what you have to work with.  Are you saying your built motor has a new compressor mounted but no other pulleys?  Or its set up with a smog pump?   

What compressor is it?   A6 was the original like in your last photo, comes in 2 and 1 groove flavors.   R4 was the 80's and early 90's like Greg's photo, those were single groove or serp.   Or is it a Sanden maybe?   Sanden is a very popular aftermarket and OE for some makes and is similar size to the A6 just not as long.   The typical universal genuine Sanden comes in either a dual V or serp pulley.   There are a lot of no name copies of the Sandens and I think you can get those with a single groove.  Those can be hard to spot because sometimes people try and sell them for the same price as a real Sanden. 

[Rosie68]

The motor with the serpentine belt it the Built motor. I'm just now realizing it has the wrong pulley on it. So I'll work on fixing that. But at least I have the AIR pump delete pulleys which was my biggest concern.

[TJ Hopland]

I'm still confused.   You have a rebuilt motor complete with accessories and a serp belt setup?   If so why are you even messing with any V belt stuff?

 

[Rosie68]

Long story, its just not going to work.

["Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364]

Short version. The A6 compressor will not fit with that intake manifold. To use the compressor on the “built” motor you are going to have to change the clutch/pulley. You are going to have to change the water pump since it is turning CCW. You are going to have to change the PS pump for one with a single belt. THEN everything will work correctly.
Now the $ that the serpentine system costs is just about what you are going to have to pay in the long run.
Greg Surfas

[TJ Hopland]

So all you have of a serp setup is a AC compressor?

If you are on a budget and don't care what it looks like you can mix the single and dual groove pulleys.   Take the single groove pulleys (and timing mark) off your parts motor.   Keep the dual groove on your existing PS and just let a single belt ride high.   

As for the AC if you have a serp belt compressor on the new motor now my guess is its a Sanden so you could just get a V belt Sanden and run the single belt.  I don't know the Sandens that well but maybe you can just change the pulleys?

You can run direct from the crank to the PS if you don't have the money to install AC now.  Belt will clear the water pump so its no big deal to just add the AC later when you can afford it.   

[Rosie68]

Correct, I was thinking all I could use from the serpentine was the A/C compressor but now I'm not sure that's the case.

Money is not the issue, the issue is the only serpentine setup I've seen for the 472's is a Hideous looking Turd Burger.

Thanks for the info.

[TJ Hopland]

I assume MTS still makes billet non smog pulleys.   I think they made both the single and dual belt versions so if you go that route you could use both grooves of a Sanden compressor and keep the dual PS.   Only possible issue is if you are using a large cap distributor like an HEI the inner belt is either very close or rubs depending on how it ends up being timed.   If you are going with one of the smaller aftermarket ones or a points one belt clearance isn't an issue. 

[35-709]

MTS has been gone for some time now, when Marty died the company folded and his brother teamed up with someone else to form Cadillac High Performance.  They may still sell the smog pump elimination kit.
https://cadillachighperformance.com/

[mario]

Ok, I'll bite. Who makes a reverse flow water pump for our 472, 500?
Ciao,
Mario Caimotto

[cadillacmike68]

Yeah, that looks like something from a Transformers film.

If you want to keep the edlebrock intake and have AC, you cannot use an A6 compressor.

I would put the 1968 intake manifold on, get a set of 1970 crank and fan / water pump pulleys and use the rest of the brackets, etc off the 68. This gives you no AIR pump and the original A6 compressor. The edlebrock is not giving you any great performance boost and it forces you to forego many Cadillac items.

[Rosie68]

Again, I'm aware of the Edlebrock intake and needing the required AC bracket. The intake will make a difference because the internals on my new motor are not stock.

As for the water pump and serpentine setup, it's a one off and won't work. Sometimes you try things that don't work, that's life.

I'm going to use the single belt setup off of my parts motor and try swap out the serpentine AC pulley to single groove.

I'll keep you guys posted, thanks

[TJ Hopland]

I have seen photos of an A6 compressor with an Edel.   All custom brackets and it sits really high.  I think I remember mention of issues with clearance with many popular carb options too and then having to get the air filters up high enough to clear it too.

Since this isn't a stock setup anyomore I would just go with a Sanden.  Sits pretty much in the original spot and works great with 134a and other common mods.   Its also inexpensive and easy to find.

[Cadman-iac]

  Would an R4 compressor work with the Edelbrock manifold? I don't remember exactly which year used that one, but it had to be on the 368 engines I believe. I haven't seen one myself,  but I had read somewhere that it was used and the brackets would fit an earlier engine.
Just a thought.

Rick