Pre bent brake lines....stainless or steel?

[wbdeford]

Car I plan to keep for decades....decided to replace all the brake lines....pros and cons for stainless vs steel?

[DeVille68]

In my opinion its not worth it to go stainless. Similar thoughts on exhaust. How often do you drive the car? And in what condition? How often do you check the systems or do you jump in the car every day of the year and don't care?
In my opinion the resellers somehow managed to convince us to buy the more expensive stuff.

Exhaust pipe, brake line, fuel lines are still original on my 68. They survived 50+ years - so why go stainless now?
(the rubber pieces were replaced of course...)

Best regards,
Nicolas. 

[wbdeford]

Cost isn't really an issue....it's about $20 more for stainless.  Decades (hopefully) from now when I will it to my daughter, I want that to be something she doesn't have to worry about, if it's a reasonable $20 investment....if there are other downsides, then I might not go that route.

[Clewisiii]

People complain about getting a good seal with stainless. That may be more about people trying to flare them themselves.

[hornetball]

Yep.  Stainless lines need to really be tight to form a seal.  The kit should come with all double flares already made.  If you need to make your own double flare in stainless, then you need to get a top-quality flaring tool.

Other than that, they're fine.  I worry more about corrosion inside brake lines.  But if you keep your fluid flushed, that's not an issue.

[jackworstell]

Brake lines that are   a copper - nickle alloy are available.

I have used it and I probably won't ever use anything else.  Fairly easy to work with.
I think 90% copper  and  10% nickle
I can double-flare it with fair success...probably as easy as steel
As far as I know...it doesn't come pre-bent

Like others...I think stainless would hard to get a good seal

The Cu/Ni  is a bit pricey but it should last forever
I get mine from Advance Auto

Jack Worstell

Jack Worstell

[bcroe]

There is a new solution to this problem, the copper nickel alloy brake lines
and fittings.  Materials are easily available, very easy to work, and much more
corrosion resistant then steel. 

As for failures, some may live were rust has been banned, but I do not.  After
getting fed up with constantly replacing exhaust systems, especially custom
made ones, I started replacing any failure with 304 stainless steel.  Not only do
these out last the car, regardless of miles and years, one of my systems is now
giving good service on its THIRD car.  Fuel lines have caused plenty of problems
here, and brakes even more so. 

As I write, I am completing replacement all the brake lines, all the hoses, and all
the calipers and cylinders of my 77.  That has been done to other cars I own,
which is much of why I can continue to drive 4 decade old cars coast to coast
on a routine basis.  Bruce Roe

[Cadman-iac]

 I've heard that you should never use a copper line for your brakes, but you guys are mentioning that with the nickel. Does the nickel make the copper that much stronger that it would hold up as well as steel does?

[Jay Friedman]

I've had pre bent stainless steel brake lines in my '49 for 25+ years with absolutely no problem of any kind.  Once installed I've never had to think about them again.  Also have stainless steel sleeves in my master and wheel cylinders--done by Hagen's Hiway Auto Pars-- for many years.

[Jim Stamper]

    Pre-bent stainless is best installed with the body off if possible. In tight places it doesn't bend easily get into tight places up front. That was a 39 LaSalle convertible sedan, perhaps newer cars have no routing challenges.

   Otherwise I like them just fine. The cost isn't that much more and should be forever brake lines no matter the gloop inside.
                    Jim Stamper CLC#13470

[35-709]

For me it is Ni-Copp only, hands down, for both fuel and brake lines.  Easy to double flare, easy to bend and of course rust is not an issue. 

[Cadman-iac]

For me it is Ni-Copp only, hands down, for both fuel and brake lines.  Easy to double flare, easy to bend and of course rust is not an issue.

Hi Geoff,
Where do you get your "ni-copp" line from? I'm guessing that you order it in a roll and cut and bend to fit?

Rick

[TJ Hopland]

Yes this stuff is way different than what you normally think of as copper tubing.   I'm sure you can get it on rolls too but you can also buy it in parts stores in various lengths with fittings on it so if you are not good at flares you can get away with a minimal amount.   The stuff I used to get when it first came out had a black coating on the outside which I think was additional corrosion protection.

Double flares are easy on regular and the nicop and can be done on a $5 tool on those small lines if you know all the tricks and proper procedures.   IF you are in a cramped space you do need fancier tools but its still not a big deal except when I am doing it its always winter so besides brake fluid dripping on you you also get road salt which tastes worse than brake fluid.   My attempts to flare stainless didn't go well but I didn't (and still don't) have anything but a cheapo flaring tool. 

[bcroe]

There is no problem getting rolls and fittings for copper nickel brake lines,
start with Amaz..   Very easy to work. 

I have no problem with prepared SS lines, MAKE SURE there fittings are the
same or they will rust on and twist the end of the tube off if repaired.  But
I have great difficulty doing the double flare, maybe there is a trick like
heating them red hot first?  Bruce Roe
 

[TJ Hopland]

I did post a write up here with photos on how to do them but I'm pretty sure the photos are gone.   Short version 2.5 most important tips if you are familiar with the typical double flare set.....

Tip #1 to set the height of the tube sticking out of the bars lay the proper die on top of the bars with the nipple up.  The first step on the die is the height the tube needs to be sticking out.

Tip #2 when you are clamping the tube between the bars first tighten up the wing nut on the end closest to the tube then tighten the far side.   This gives you a lot more leverage to really get a good bite on the tubing.  If it slips at all it won't work.

Tip #2.5 only is super critical if you have a cheap tool.  Grease the threads and shoot some oil down between the threaded rod and the pointy end.  The pointy end should not turn but the rod has to and especially with the cheap tools this is a problem without lots of lube.

[Cadman-iac]

 I'm interested in this ni-copp tubing as it sounds like the best way to go.  I had bought 25 ft rolls of regular steel tubing in the 3/16", 1/4", 5/16", and 3/8" sizes to do all new lines on my 56, but I know that it won't remain looking good for long. The paint or whatever coating comes off, the lines rust, (surface rust), but it's rust nonetheless.
I'd like to get some of this stuff instead. How much more is it versus the regular steel line? And where do you find it?

[TJ Hopland]

Available from all the usual suspects but now I see the categories and search options don't easily find it.

https://www.summitracing.com/search?SortBy=BestKeywordMatch&SortOrder=Ascending&keyword=nickel%2Fcopper

[Cadman-iac]

Available from all the usual suspects but now I see the categories and search options don't easily find it.

https://www.summitracing.com/search?SortBy=BestKeywordMatch&SortOrder=Ascending&keyword=nickel%2Fcopper

Thanks for the link TJ. That helps.

[fishnjim]

2 points.
1 - the nickel(Ni)/copper(Cu) brake line is an iron(Fe) alloy.
2 - stainless(SS) "work" hardens, so forming it is a bit more tricky than soft steel which was used originally.   SS needs to be annealed first.   Preferable to use SS fittings over brass.   304 has a large iron percentage and what is most common for tube, but 316L is the Cadillac of tubings, $$$.   it will outlast the car.   Need special cutter and bender for stainless.   A normal steel tube cutter wheel won't last.   Rigid makes a nice one, $$.   Swagelok makes a good bender, but have to buy one for each OD.   I have the Eastwood flare bender, but I really think there is not a good one in my opinion.   The clamp type "suck" after a few flares.   Nothing I've used has lasted, better to get commercially pre-bent.   DIY can't justify a hydraulic machine.   I did miles of alloy tubings in my commercial life.

There's also coated line (dark green) that is in used on most newer cars, easy to bend.   
I've used some aluminum for fuel lines, easier to bend and better in ethanol and with AN fittings.  It's not compatible with brake fluid.   Really don't want to mix and match metals due to possible galvanic attack or use incompatible for fluid.

[35-709]

Hi Geoff,
Where do you get your "ni-copp" line from? I'm guessing that you order it in a roll and cut and bend to fit?

Rick

I usually buy my ni-copp at my local NAPA store and I buy it in rolls unless I just need a short piece that I don't have handy on a roll.  Ni-Copp is much easier to work with and it too will outlast the car.  You can find it on eBay for less than NAPA's price --- for example a 25' roll of 3/16ths ni-copp can be found for $20 (with fittings), while SS in the same size and length roll is $58.50 (with fittings), free shipping on both.  Cheaper than NAPA, but my NAPA is close by.
I did the fuel and brake lines on my '35 Cadillac resto-mod, my '73 Caribou, the '50 Jaguar resto-mod, and my Gen 2, Auburn Boattail Speedster restoration, all in ni-copp.  Have no need or desire to use anything else.  I use an Eastwood flaring tool kit, $230 on eBay, not cheap, but I use it a lot and it works great for me.

To add:  Ni-copp will work harden some too but still much easier to work with than stainless.  Wouldn't use plain (or coated) steel tubing for anything unless going for a full on 100 point restoration --- which isn't my thing.