'75 Eldorado key ignition

[Steve Lomas]

I never had any trouble with the key ignition until it would not turn back/off today.. 

No amount of jiggling did anything, it was stuck fast on 'run', until with enough force, it broke off leaving the key inside

I know that getting the steering column apart is a pain... any hints/ tips on repairing this much appreciated!

[chrisntam]

I can relate, my issue is getting the key to the run/start position, it's hitting something in the column, or seems to be.  When I jiggle the steering wheel, it eventually will allow the key forward to start.  I don't think it's the switch, but something in the column.  I've been in columns before, but haven't dealt with the telescoping part yet.

I'll be following your thread.

chris.

[Steve Lomas]

I can relate, my issue is getting the key to the run/start position, it's hitting something in the column, or seems to be.  When I jiggle the steering wheel, it eventually will allow the key forward to start.  I don't think it's the switch, but something in the column.  I've been in columns before, but haven't dealt with the telescoping part yet.

I'll be following your thread.

chris.

Well mine used to do that also.. but it never stuck on run-   so it may be good to try to get some oil down there before it does!

I was also using the original key which was extremely worn, so that may have been the issue-

[Cadman-iac]

 Actually,  the worn key usually only causes a problem getting the lock cylinder to turn from lock to either accessory or run/start. There's a retractable lock bar that fits into a recessed channel in the column housing,  and once the key is inserted, that lock bar is supposed to retract enough into the cylinder to allow the cylinder to turn either direction.
If you're having trouble with it after the cylinder is out of the lock position,  it's usually a worn or loose part in the linkage to the ignition switch itself.
Also,  if you have a tilt column and it's flopping up and down and a little left and right,  that would indicate that the tilt head mounting screws have worked loose. Unfortunately to correct this,  the column will have to be disassembled quite a bit.
The telescopic portion of the column doesn't affect the lock cylinder or linkage. But to get to the lock cylinder or farther into the column,  the telescopic part will also have to be disassembled.

Hope this clears up some questions.

Rick

[Steve Lomas]

Actually,  the worn key usually only causes a problem getting the lock cylinder to turn from lock to either accessory or run/start. There's a retractable lock bar that fits into a recessed channel in the column housing,  and once the key is inserted, that lock bar is supposed to retract enough into the cylinder to allow the cylinder to turn either direction.
If you're having trouble with it after the cylinder is out of the lock position,  it's usually a worn or loose part in the linkage to the ignition switch itself.
Also,  if you have a tilt column and it's flopping up and down and a little left and right,  that would indicate that the tilt head mounting screws have worked loose. Unfortunately to correct this,  the column will have to be disassembled quite a bit.
The telescopic portion of the column doesn't affect the lock cylinder or linkage. But to get to the lock cylinder or farther into the column,  the telescopic part will also have to be disassembled.

Hope this clears up some questions.

Rick

Okay thanks for that info

the tilt and telescope are solid, though I did find previously that some slop in the steering was mostly from the CV joint inside the tilt

Not sure if this could be related though...  I fear maybe the shifter was just not properly in park when I tried to turn the key off

this is what comes of picking up Chinese carry-out with a hungry dog in the car..

[Big Fins]

Lucky dog. He gets Chinese food. I would have to drive 40 miles into Orlando to get even mediocre Chinese food.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

G'day Steve,

I had a similar problem with a friends' '71 Eldo, and it turned out to be the Sector Gear at the end of the Key lock rotator of the Ignition Switch that had lost a tooth, and the unit had skipped on the rack that operates the electric Ignition Switch down on the steering column.

To move the car, I had to remove the dash under cover, and with a pair of pliers, grab the ignition actuating rod, and managed to pull it downwards, thus pulling the steering wheel locking pin clear of the locking wheel at the base of the steering wheel.   By removing the Electrical Ignition Switch bolts, I was able to move the slider with a point and got the car started.

To allow the car to be moved, I had to un-clip the gear selector shaft at the outside of the firewall, and separate it from the gear lever on the column, and operate it by hand to get gears.

Pictures show the locking wheel, the Sector with teeth missing and the Rack.

This Column was a Tilt Column.

Bruce.

PS.   The later Sectors have 5 teeth, and a different shaped rack, so stay with the earlier ones with the 6 teeth.

[TJ Hopland]

The rack which is the thing below the gear in Bruce's last picture has a curved slot in the end of it that engages the rod that goes down to the electrical switch under the dash.   I have see various pieces of that rack crack and break too.

Pretty sure a 75 the ignition was the only thing that key fit so at least if you have to replace the cylinder you don't have to worry about matching it to any other locks on the car. 

Don't know how desperate you are to drive the car or how much extra wire Cadillac left you in 75 but some other GM's there was enough wire that you could unbolt the switch off the side of the column and let it hang down so you could operate it with a screwdriver or rod with a hook in it.    The detents are built into the switch so its really not a big deal.  You just have to make sure that there is no chance that something related to the key is going to move and lock the steering wheel.   

[Steve Lomas]

G'day Steve,

I had a similar problem with a friends' '71 Eldo, and it turned out to be the Sector Gear at the end of the Key lock rotator of the Ignition Switch that had lost a tooth, and the unit had skipped on the rack that operates the electric Ignition Switch down on the steering column.

To move the car, I had to remove the dash under cover, and with a pair of pliers, grab the ignition actuating rod, and managed to pull it downwards, thus pulling the steering wheel locking pin clear of the locking wheel at the base of the steering wheel.   By removing the Electrical Ignition Switch bolts, I was able to move the slider with a point and got the car started.

To allow the car to be moved, I had to un-clip the gear selector shaft at the outside of the firewall, and separate it from the gear lever on the column, and operate it by hand to get gears.

Pictures show the locking wheel, the Sector with teeth missing and the Rack.

This Column was a Tilt Column.

Bruce.

PS.   The later Sectors have 5 teeth, and a different shaped rack, so stay with the earlier ones with the 6 teeth.

Thanks very much Bruce- the pics are really helpful. that looks like the issue then. I have the steering wheel and the 'locking disc' off and I can see part of that gear mechanism- it is clearly stopping the key from turning back to the off position

So I can start and move the car fine, it just wont turn back off (I had to choke it off on the carb).

So I'll try to replace that gear without breaking anything else (already snapped off the indicator stalk )


Also- Getting a better look- it appears I still 'have all my teeth'- they are just a little worn and apparently skipped one gear- I'm tempted to try to just force it back but having got this far I'd really like to get into it and fix it properly

I have the main part of the steering column tube unbolted and loose now- but it won't come off- does the ignition cylinder need to come out first? any trick??

[Steve Lomas]

The rack which is the thing below the gear in Bruce's last picture has a curved slot in the end of it that engages the rod that goes down to the electrical switch under the dash.   I have see various pieces of that rack crack and break too.

Pretty sure a 75 the ignition was the only thing that key fit so at least if you have to replace the cylinder you don't have to worry about matching it to any other locks on the car. 

Don't know how desperate you are to drive the car or how much extra wire Cadillac left you in 75 but some other GM's there was enough wire that you could unbolt the switch off the side of the column and let it hang down so you could operate it with a screwdriver or rod with a hook in it.    The detents are built into the switch so its really not a big deal.  You just have to make sure that there is no chance that something related to the key is going to move and lock the steering wheel.

Thanks TJ,  I'm always amazed at the depth of knowledge on this forum!

^ My thoughts exactly; I can make it work, but I need to be 100% sure that steering lock will never engage unexpectedly -  any idea if I can remove the rod or otherwise disable the mechanism entirely?

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Steve,

The Ignition Lock has to be removed to access the shaft that holds the gear in position.

I have more pictures that I can email to you, if you like, but having the Shop Manual describes exactly what needs to be done to get it apart, and back together.

I made up a simple tool to make easier the removal of the locking plate, and also thought about removing the locking rod, but that might have an effect on any Insurance Claim that I might have to have in the event of the vehicle being stolen.

These cars would be very easy to steal without that locking pin.

Plus, taking the column from the car made the whole task a lot easier.   Nothing better than having it mounted in a vice, and being able to stand and work on it instead of contorting oneself inside the car.

Bruce.

[Steve Lomas]

Steve,

The Ignition Lock has to be removed to access the shaft that holds the gear in position.

I have more pictures that I can email to you, if you like, but having the Shop Manual describes exactly what needs to be done to get it apart, and back together.

I made up a simple tool to make easier the removal of the locking plate, and also thought about removing the locking rod, but that might have an effect on any Insurance Claim that I might have to have in the event of the vehicle being stolen.

These cars would be very easy to steal without that locking pin.

Plus, taking the column from the car made the whole task a lot easier.   Nothing better than having it mounted in a vice, and being able to stand and work on it instead of contorting oneself inside the car.

Bruce.

well yes- it does take a bit of Yoga...
I did manage to get the lock out- so here's what I'm looking at now; with the lock gone, the rack moved freely back into the off position, and the gear looks ok here I'm thinking?

So it seems to have been the lock itself jamming after all..  I just need to get this back together with the new one, and I guess I will leave the locking mechanism alone.

I would love to fix that CV joint in the tilt and tighten up the steering- but that can probably wait till spring- not driving this much more this year..

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Isn't that spring a wonderful piece of artistry.   Pity it has to be covered.

If everything is working as it should with the lock out, then it looks like your lock is faulty, and may have failed internally.   A Locksmith would tell you, but from the way pricings are these days, it might be cheaper to simply order a replacement lock.

But, A locksmith will (should) be able to repair your own lock, which will save you having extra keys.   Plus, if you do need a new lock, then the same locksmith will be able to re-key the new lock to suit your own keys.

Bruce.

[Steve Lomas]

Isn't that spring a wonderful piece of artistry.   Pity it has to be covered.

it is, & probably not something computer aided design would come up with- amazing what people did with pencil and paper.

If everything is working as it should with the lock out, then it looks like your lock is faulty, and may have failed internally.   A Locksmith would tell you, but from the way pricings are these days, it might be cheaper to simply order a replacement lock.

But, A locksmith will (should) be able to repair your own lock, which will save you having extra keys.   Plus, if you do need a new lock, then the same locksmith will be able to re-key the new lock to suit your own keys.

Bruce.

Yes- I managed to pick one up in stock for $12!    The ignition key was always different than the doors, and I broke the old one off in the jammed lock anyway..

I had left it parked outside with the windows down last time I drove it and I'm almost wondering if someone had a go at it- seems an odd thing to just suddenly fail, but it is going on half a century old

Thank you for all the help- and the Eldosaur thanks you too!

[TJ Hopland]

The current production locks are pretty low quality and won't last anywhere near as long as the originals did but for a non daily driven car may be just fine.   

The trucks used the same lock till 94 is why you can still find them in stock not to mention all the other GM products that used them for almost 20 years.

[Steve Lomas]

The current production locks are pretty low quality and won't last anywhere near as long as the originals did but for a non daily driven car may be just fine.   

The trucks used the same lock till 94 is why you can still find them in stock not to mention all the other GM products that used them for almost 20 years.

I was wondering about that, there was also a $45 version which I would have bought, but the $12 was in stock and I had the chance to work on it today so..

anyway it's all back together and working- key buzzer even works again now! (but not for long  )

[TJ Hopland]

I have heard that the $45 ones are not much better but that was all in the context of daily use so for classic use may not really be an issue.   Things like having a minimal number of keys (weight) on the ring supposedly helps extend the life too.

Be careful on how you disable the buzzer.   In this era that system was a pretty complex mess since the one buzzer does key in, over temp, seat belts,  roast is done,  ect....      Have spent many hours both hands on and remotely trying to sort out someones previous bypass in these systems that were not well thought out or executed.   Be sure you are looking at a diagram for your year and model too because they seemed to be making changes year to year and even sometimes for different models.   I think some of it was related to federal regulations is why its not easily bypassed and more complicated than it should have been.