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Successfully Removed & Replaced Pinion Seal '37 LaSalle

Started by carlhungness, November 12, 2020, 04:38:50 PM

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carlhungness

       After a chat with fellow member Brad Ipsen on how to remove the pinion seal on my '37 LaSalle I was able to do so and surprised myself. I had removed the yoke and its attendant nut and had no idea how to remove the seal and the sleeve holding it in.
        Brad noted he used a slide hammer to remove the sleeve after pushing the seal itself back toward the pinion. I used a 2" piece of exhaust tubing to coax the seal backwards about 3/4" and could not see a way to pull the sleeve out, and had no idea how deep the sleeve went into the third member itself.
       Ultimately I used my industrial strength heat gun to warm up the area around the sleeve and found that one finger of my slide hammer would  just fit in between the edge of the sleeve and the shaft connecting to the yoke.
        I heated the plot for about five minutes and slipped the slide hammer finger into the sleeve and was assuredly afraid I'd bend the lip while jamming the slide upwards. A helper came along (as I've just had carpal tunnel surgery on my right hand) and I directed him to slam the hammer upwards, and lo and behold the sleeve popped one side up, then we went 'round to the other side and the sleeve came loose.
        It was then a simple matter to replace the seal, and I found one in my shop that I had purchased 25 years ago, left it in the car when I gave it to my friend and it was still there. I wasn't sure what it fit so I took it to a NAPA store and they were able to cross-reference the old number to the new one I had found on our Cad forum that was posted some time back. It was the same seal so I saved $18.00 too.
       For safety sake I re-heated the sleeve area with the heat gun again and tapped the sleeve and its new seal back into place. Mission accomplished and I'm ever so thankful for Brad's help along with the knowledge gained from the old forum posts. Here's a photo of my slide hammer and its use of just one finger.

LaSalle5019

Doesn't removing and reinstalling the yoke change the preload on the pinion bearings?

The Tassie Devil(le)

Definitely does, but if it is possible to replace the nut back to the same position, exactly, then it should be good.

One matter to check is to check just how tight it was in the first place.

If the diff has a Solid Spacer, then it doesn't matter, but as most have a Collapsible Spacer, it is very important.

Plus, never use rattle guns for this nut.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Bobby B

Quote from: LaSalle5019 on November 12, 2020, 06:24:42 PM
Doesn't removing and reinstalling the yoke change the preload on the pinion bearings?

Yes...Rotating torque should be measured Also, the nut should be marked for reference against the yoke so you can creep up on it without going past it and ruining your crush collar, if it has one. I do both just so I can compare it when done.You can ruin a rear if you're not careful. If you're installing new, you can use the factory pre-load. Best to have a pinion depth/setting gauge, torque wrenches, assorted shims, and some experience.
                                                                 Bobby
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

Joe G 12138

Thanks  for sharing, Carl! It's just a matter of time, and I'll be doing is too. Your "new" post will eventually be an "old" post as you referenced. And sometime down the road it will help others.   Joe Gibeault

carlhungness

       I took the nut off with an impact and didn't mark it. The plot appears to have a thick solid washer, so how do I re-install the nut, what torque, measurements, etc. Need some help here I believe. I don't need foul up the pinion setting.

Bobby B

Quote from: carlhungness on November 12, 2020, 08:56:13 PM
       I took the nut off with an impact and didn't mark it. The plot appears to have a thick solid washer, so how do I re-install the nut, what torque, measurements, etc. Need some help here I believe. I don't need foul up the pinion setting.

Carl,
Hate to break the Bad News to you, but the damage is done. No going back from here. It'll be a small Miracle if your rear doesn't eventually howl, whine, prematurely wear, or lock up. Rebuilding a rear properly is not easy. As others pointed out, impact guns are also a no-no. The correct tools are needed, and different makes use different tools. Solid spacers or crush collars need to be addressed accordingly with the correct gauges.
                                                                           Bobby
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

Brad Ipsen CLC #737

Carl does not have to worry about preload.  He is lucky to have a 37 and those with a 38 are lucky also.  The collapsible sleeve putting preload on did not start until 1939.  Shims were used before that. You just tighten the nut against those shims which the factory installed to set the preload.  With this you can see why the engineers came up with the collapsible sleeve idea.  All that work getting the shims just right for the correct preload compared to just collapsing the sleeve by tightening the nut to achieve the correct drag.

For those with the collapsible sleeves in the 1940 Manufacturing Information the statement is made can the sleeve be reused if a differential does not pass the noise test and it is taken apart.  It states that yes you can but you should use it in another differential that needs a little more of a collapse.  This being the case I thought just adding a shim should be the same as finding a use for a slightly short sleeve.  I use a .005 to .010 shim and tighten to the minimum torque and then go for the proper drag.  Seems to work.  I have detail write up if anyone is interested.  brad@ipsengarage.com

   
Brad Ipsen
1940 Cadillac 60S
1938 Cadillac 9039
1940 Cadillac 6267
1940 LaSalle 5227
1949 Cadillac 6237X
1940 Cadillac 60S Limo

Bobby B

Quote from: Brad Ipsen CLC #737 on November 12, 2020, 09:31:11 PM
He is lucky to have a 37 and those with a 38 are lucky also. 
   

VERY...... >:D
               Bobby
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

LaSalle5019

#9
Glad it turned out my concern was unwarranted. I have a 1939 so was basing my post on my set up. I would suggest ensuring there is some preload when you are done - as bearings wear in, preload goes way down. If nothing else just make sure there is no end play after you torque up the nut.
Scott

carlhungness

     How could I have damaged anything if just the nut was removed, not yet re-tightened? Couldn't have hurt anything I don't believe. Now, what torque do I use to re-install the nut?

The Tassie Devil(le)

#11
G'day Carl,

Removing the nut with the Rattle Gun shakes everything the nut is attached to, but seeing as there is a solid spacer, then it shouldn't matter.

Now, as for the tightening torque, well, the factory torque should be sufficient as again, there is the solid spacer.   With the Collapsible Spacer, then Torque doesn't come into it, just rotational pressure, again, as per the Shop Manual.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe