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Just how much technology is too much technology

Started by e.mason, December 04, 2020, 12:49:11 PM

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e.mason

Just got this email.

https://cadillacsociety.com/2020/12/04/cadillac-walks-back-claims-in-super-cruise-advertisement/

It got me to thinking just how much technology is too much technology?  Do we really need cars that take out the human element in driving them? I shudder to think what could happen if the system malfunctions on the Interstate!  Don't misunderstand me.  I personally love some of the technology for the sake of safety i.e. video cameras all over. handsfree use of cell phones etc.

By the same token.  It's my opinion that all this technology going forward will be another nail in the coffin of the antique/classic car hobby.  Besides the lack of interest.  Who will be able to restore today's cars 25+ years down the road, even if they can find the parts?
Eric Mason

carlhungness

    I joined the club to make new friends and of course gain knowledge of my vehicle, but I'm afraid I'm not going to make a friend with this post. I read a few sentences and came across the words, 'hands free-cell phone use'. As a motorcycle rider and automotive magazine reader for over 60 years I believe the stats that say anyone who drives a car and TALKS on the cell phone, hand on or off, is a real danger on the road. I've seen the stats that show the driving simulator with a cell phone driver and they too prove the point.
    Thus, as a motorcycle rider who has dodged more cell phone drivers than I can recall, if you drive while talking on the phone I'm not a fan. I've had to argue with my own lovely sister over the fact.
     Take a look at today's stats and see the percentage of accidents now happening due to distracted driving. Talking on the phone does not compare to having a passenger next to you. We didn't used to have this many accidents due to distracted driving and cell phones are the root cause. Hang up and drive.

signart

Art D. Woody

savemy67

Hello all,

A couple months back I was in a parking lot watching a car back out of a space.  The driver was using the back-up camera in the dash of the car - I know, because I later asked her.

As she backed out of the space, she turned her front wheels to the right.  Thus, the car described an arc, with a radius of several feet.  The view in the back-up camera showed no obstructions directly behind the car, but because the car was not traveling in a straight line, but was turning, the camera did not show that the front-left fender was going to clip the rear of the car that the driver was trying to avoid - no side-mounted cameras are available on the car.

The resulting damage to both cars was about $5000.  I tried consoling the woman.  She did have enough integrity to locate the owner of the parked car she hit.  This could have been avoided by using the driver's side-mount mirror.

Technology is a tool. Tools should enhance our intellectual and productive capacity - not replace it.  Driving requires our full mental engagement.

Respectfully submitted,

Christopher Winter
Christopher Winter
1967 Sedan DeVille hardtop

Mike Josephic CLC #3877

I fully agree with the OP.

Nine times out of 10, whenever I see a driver doing
something stupid, he / she is on a cell phone.  When
driving, your full attention should be on the task at
hand.

Also, the increasing use of other gadgets such as
flat screen devices in the dash that have maps,
entertainment, etc., that require the driver to
take their eyes off the road are utterly dangerous.
Remember that a vehicle traveling at 60 miles per
hour travels at 88 feet per second.  That does not
leave much spare time to stare at on screen devices.

Mike



1955 Cadillac Eldorado
1973 Cadillac Eldorado
1995 Cadillac Seville
2004 Escalade
1997 GMC Suburban 4X4, 454 engine, 3/4 ton
custom built by Santa Fe in Evansville, IN
2011 Buick Lucerne CX
-------------------------------------
CLCMRC Museum Benefactor #38
Past: VP International Affiliates, Museum Board Director, President / Director Pittsburgh Region

cadillac ken

The problem with relieving the driver of responsibility is that it lulls them into a false sense of security as well as a sense of irresponsibility.

I own an exotic car and it is about 16years old.  The tech incorporated into that car is about as much as I want and actually improves my driving experience.  I have no intention of owning the newer model.  Too much needless tech ( a push button on the console to open the glove box--- c'mon man)  Stuff that doesn't improve my driving experience and actually annoys me.

Safety stuff is great but once again it sends the wrong message: Go ahead, be distracted, be complacent, be divorced from your responsibility of driving a vehicle in traffic, around pedestrians, at speed... not good and I don't see that as progress.

Jay Friedman

#6
I agree with all postings, as I'm against most modern technology in cars, including the back up cameras.  (I think they are necessary because of all the blind spots in modern car bodies.)

I purposely bought 3-4 years ago as my daily driver a 2009 Toyota Corolla Base, with stick shift, roll up windows, no cameras and an old fashion instrument panel with real dials.  It's in fine shape with few annoyances.
1949 Cadillac 6107 Club Coupe
1932 Ford V8 Phaeton (restored, not a rod).  Sold
Decatur, Georgia
CLC # 3210, since 1984
"If it won't work, get a bigger hammer."

bctexas

Heck I remember when "auto, ps, pb, r&h" was pretty much fully optioned....     :)
1965 CDV
1970 SDV

Bob Schuman

The backup camera in my daily driver is a very useful and helpful aid in parking lots. However, it does not compare with the feature in my 51 Cadillac coupe that is not available in new cars. That car has windows all the way around with narrow posts, so I can easily see with my own eyes how to back up safely.
Bob Schuman, CLC#254
2017 CT6-unsatisfactory (repurchased by GM)
2023 XT5

e.mason

Quote from: Bob Schuman on December 05, 2020, 10:17:40 AM
The backup camera in my daily driver is a very useful and helpful aid in parking lots. However, it does not compare with the feature in my 51 Cadillac coupe that is not available in new cars. That car has windows all the way around with narrow posts, so I can easily see with my own eyes how to back up safely.

That's why we switched to trucks and SUV's.  They offer more safety visibility by having the driver sit higher and larger exterior rearview mirrors.  One other quick point.  I mentioned "hands-free cell phone" use as a positive, based on the reality of today's lifestyles.  No matter what, drivers are always going to use their cell phones when driving.  I think that at least a hands-free device is safer than having a driver holding their phone.  With hands-free, you can push a button on the steering wheel and give a voice command as to who you want to call.  You never have to take your eyes off the road.
Eric Mason

cadillac ken

I have long since predicted that there will be a sound rejection of tech in all things in the future (including our cars) and a return to the simpler stuff that simply works as well as it needs to.  Tech is fine when it works.  Pretty expensive and frustrating when it doesn't.  Life is more complicated nowadays than ever and the patience for tech gone wrong is going to wane:  and IMO significantly.

How long has toilet paper been around.  No need to improve on the process.  It works fine and has for many decades.
Sorry for the crappy analogy  ;D

Cheers Ken

e.mason

Quote from: cadillac ken on December 05, 2020, 02:08:38 PM
I have long since predicted that there will be a sound rejection of tech in all things in the future (including our cars) and a return to the simpler stuff that simply works as well as it needs to.  Tech is fine when it works.  Pretty expensive and frustrating when it doesn't.  Life is more complicated nowadays than ever and the patience for tech gone wrong is going to wane:  and IMO significantly.

How long has toilet paper been around.  No need to improve on the process.  It works fine and has for many decades.
Sorry for the crappy analogy  ;D

Cheers Ken

Actually there is technology to replace toilet paper.....automated bidgets, but I digress.  Let's not forget that Cadillac used to be on the cutting edge of the latest and greatest technology i.e. selfstarter and adjustable steering wheel to name a couple.
Eric Mason

David Greenburg

And down the road Cadillac could be on the leading edge of adding automatic bidets to their long-range autonomous vehicles.  Hell, with an automatic bidet and related equipment and automatic food delivery to your moving car you could drive all day without stopping in your extended range autonomous with solar recharge.

As for back-up cameras, they do seem really necessary on contemporary cars because it’s so hard to see out the back.  The camera on my daily driver has recently stopped working most of the time, and it’s really annoying. OTOH, while I know some people who have added them to vintage cars, I’ve never felt the need to add them to my Caddys, because the visibility is so good.
David Greenburg
'60 Eldorado Seville
'61 Fleetwood Sixty Special

e.mason

Quote from: David Greenburg on December 05, 2020, 05:19:44 PM
And down the road Cadillac could be on the leading edge of adding automatic bidets to their long-range autonomous vehicles.  Hell, with an automatic bidet and related equipment and automatic food delivery to your moving car you could drive all day without stopping in your extended range autonomous with solar recharge.

As for back-up cameras, they do seem really necessary on contemporary cars because it’s so hard to see out the back.  The camera on my daily driver has recently stopped working most of the time, and it’s really annoying. OTOH, while I know some people who have added them to vintage cars, I’ve never felt the need to add them to my Caddys, because the visibility is so good.

I believe the reason for the rear cameras was it gave the driver complete visibility as to what is behind the vehicle below the rear window.  It could show if a small child was in the way or anything laying in an individuals driveway if they back into their garage or driveway.

Continuing with my original statement.  I just received this email.  Printed circuit boards in water pumps?

https://cadillacsociety.com/2020/12/05/new-service-bulletin-addresses-water-pump-issues-on-cadillac-ct4-ct5/

*NOTE:  I am not Cadillac Bashing.  Only intended to open a dialogue about the technology available today in ALL cars.

Eric Mason

Jim Stamper


     Cars come with so many devices and gadgets these days, I sometimes wonder how many millions of dollars in automotive investment people are driving around in their cars that have no idea of the tricks their car can do. They came with the car, were paid for with the car, and silently ride along the owner not knowing or perhaps not caring.

     Silly, but we recently discovered a hidden button on the back door of our car that allows the window to open. Not much indication it would open, many don't. That isn't even electronic, those things abound. Many I have no need or use for.    Jim Stamper   CLC#13470

The Tassie Devil(le)

Quote from: e.mason on December 05, 2020, 07:45:07 PM
I believe the reason for the rear cameras was it gave the driver complete visibility as to what is behind the vehicle below the rear window.  It could show if a small child was in the way or anything laying in an individuals driveway if they back into their garage or driveway.
The need for rear cameras came about simply because when cars were fitted with Head Restraints to all seating positions, thereby creating serious blind spots when turning the head around to see where one was going when reversing.

Add to this, the shape of cars with really high rear bodywork, and combined with narrow side window openings, which allow the Side-impact Air Bags to actually go up against the body when deployed, (large windows won't hold much) that rear vision, from the Drivers' seat, became virtually nonexistant.

My 1960 Coupe DeVille had the best all-round vision of any car I have owned, apart from a Convertible with the roof down.   Plus, with the low-sloping trunk lid, nobody was going to get run over.

We have to pressure the Car Makers to make cars that people will buy, but there aren't enough of us that want to perform our own maintenance to ensure this.   And the Governments aren't going to lower the Auto Requirements any time soon either.   Oh, and the problem with us "repairers" buying new cars, is never going to happen, as many like me, never buy a new car.   Too many good used (cheap) cars around to satisfy our needs.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Roger Zimmermann

Quote from: Jim Stamper on December 05, 2020, 09:49:21 PM

  Silly, but we recently discovered a hidden button on the back door of our car that allows the window to open.   
After 9 years of ownership, I discovered that my DTS has Intellibeam (sort of Autronic Eye)!
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

The Tassie Devil(le)

With the huge Owners Manual that comes with these new cars it will take forever to read them fully, and comprehend what features are in it, and then having the ability to remember everything will take a very long time.

I remember when in 1992, I got my first home computer, a 286, I hit the "Help" button, and what came up on the screen, showing what the computer could do, was too much to consume.

It was then that I made the realisation that no matter how long I lived, I would never be able to use all the stuff that this computer could do for me.   In 2020, I still feel the same.

Bruce. >:D

PS.   At least the Owners Manual for my '72 Eldorado is only 80, up from 63 pages for my '70 Ranchero Squire.   The one I have for the 1990 Cadillac has risen to 377 Pages.
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

jdemerson

I have a different take on automobile technology than some here who have commented. I think that a good share of the technology is useful, convenient, and enhances safety. And I try NEVER to let the technology substitute for what I do and should do as a driver.

An example of excellent technology is the rear-view camera supplemented by other cameras to give 360 degree vision around the car. It displays very nicely in color, is visible with the briefest glance, and does not require taking one's hands off the steering wheel. Now that I have it, I'd NEVER do without it.

A second example is the head-up display on the windshield that projects actual speed, speed limit posted, and speed setting of the adaptive cruise control. it also projects the next turn from the navigation system. Best of all, it keeps the driver's eyes on the road... GM was a pioneer with this technology, at least in cars, in the late 80s. Cadillac had a very good system in the early 2000s. It all originated in military applications and then in commercial aircraft.

A third example is adaptive cruise control. My version of that is very nearly equivalent to Cadillac's Super Cruise, although I believe that Super Cruise is currently the very best system available. These systems have collision detection (and automatic braking in many cases) for front, rear, and side protection.

There are many other good examples. When my wife or I get in the car, a press of a button adjusts the seats, mirrors, and steering wheel automatically. I could live without it, but would I want to?

BUT THERE IS POTENTIALLY A MAJOR DOWNSIDE OF ALL THIS. What happens when it breaks? Can it be repaired?  Sure, but at what cost? For the best and most reliable cars, the major challenge for reliability is in the electronics. (Check out Consumer Reports for verification...)  My own response is that when we bought the car we bought the manufacturer's extended warranty -- 7 years or 75,000 miles. If all is functioning perfectly after 7 / 75,000, I suspect there is a chance it will go another 75,000 miles without failure. But of course it may not. This, in my view, is the downside of all the modern electronics -- the downside is not so much whether the technology is good or helpful.

John Emerson
John Emerson
Middlebury, Vermont
CLC member #26790
1952 Series 6219X
http://bit.ly/21AGnvn

James Landi

From "The Cadillac Society News"

"According to the documents, seen by Cadillac Society, the water pump issue is due to the fact that, on affected vehicles, the printed circuit board inside the pump “may have been manufactured incorrectly, potentially causing a water pump failure”.

Having replaced several Cadillac water pumps, I'm having some difficulty imagining a "printed circuit board" inside the pump, and just why one would want to manufacture a pump with sensitive electronic device in it---    Happy day,  James