I have pin holes in the back plate of the water pump.

[Mike Baillargeon #15848]

Just got the water pump rebuilt and Arthur Gould Rebuilders said the back plate needs some pin holes addressed.

The rebuilder told me that they were afraid to put the welder on it to plug those holes.....he said maybe try JB Weld....??

These holes are right on the edge of the raised portion of the stamping...there are about 6-7 pin holes....

Unfortunately the pump is a one off and there are none anywhere to be found.....1934 LaSalle.....an Oldsmobile built straight 8....

What's the best way to fix this...weld....braze....JB weld...

see my pictures below....

By the way, Gould charged me $200 with a 3 week turn around...

Mike

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Oh dear, what a mess, and you are lucky it was caught before loosing all its cool(ant)

There are a couple of ways around this, and one I would suggest is having a radiator shop completely clean it, and let the operator fill the holes with solder.

A job that is well done should never leak, but I have to restate, it needs to be a good job.

It could be welded up, but that would lead to a lot of distortion, but a task that I would only attempt with the Oxy Welding process.

One has to remember that there is a lot of hydraulic forces in this area, as the water is moved around by the impeller.

Another method would be to replicate the cover, but using a flat piece of steel, with a spacer made to cover the distance of the step, if there is room.

Bruce.
   

[Bobby B]

I do have a stupid question, and that is what was the point of rebuilding that pump without first repairing the damage before returning it to you or at least bring it to your attention as the how you would like to proceed.
                                                     Bobby

[Mike Baillargeon #15848]

I do have a stupid question, and that is what was the point of rebuilding that pump without first repairing the damage before returning it to you or at least bring it to your attention as the how you would like to proceed.
                                                     Bobby

Good question Bobby.

He did call me and asked if I wanted him to take a shot at the JB weld fix...that was after the rebuild though...

I think he knew this is a hard to find pump, so he went ahead and rebuilt it.....And I'll tell you it wasn't leaking when I sent it to him....but it must have been on it's way to leaking and the sandblasting just pushed it along....

I got no choice, I have to fix this one.

Mike

[Mike Baillargeon #15848]

Is the JB Weld not the way to go??

That would be easiest.....

Mike

[chrisntam]

I really can't help with the question of JB Weld or not, but what about searching out someone who could make a replacement plate for you?  That's be the best long term solution.  While it's being made, JBW it up and run it until it leaks, then put the replacement plate on.

Somebody in this country of ours has to have the capability to make that.  I don't know who though.

The only other option is pucky it up, refill with antifreeze and quick sell the car!   

[KenZ]

Try Pete Sanders.  He has made some parts for me in the past.  Good Luck, Ken Z

http://www.classicautoandmachine.com/index.htm

[Bobby B]

Somebody in this country of ours has to have the capability to make that.  I don't know who though.

There's nothing difficult about making that part. Any good fabricator/ machinist with the proper equipment can reproduce that. It's not full of complex bends or angles. Once they make the die, it would just get pressed out. The key would be the cost factor, but if you find someone retired that's up for the challenge, let them have a crack at it. If it's steel, why couldn't the holes be brazed/welded closed? I find it hard to believe that they couldn't repair that, knowing the scarcity of the part.
                     Bobby

[Tom Beaver]

I would not use JB Weld if it were mine.  I would braze it up or use silver solder as Bruce suggested. Also machining out a plate wouldn't be that hard to do as well.  It's so corroded that fixing these holes may be just the beginning of your problem.  Brazing or soldering may be just a stop gap measure.

Tom Beaver

[Mike Josephic CLC #3877]

JB Weld, being an epoxy, will not hold up to
constant contact with water / glycol solution.
It will fail, especially since this solution is
heated.

How long would it last?  Impossible to say but
this is not a permanent repair.  Either solder
it up or as one poster suggested have a new piece
fabricated.  The latter would be my first choice.

Mike

[Jay Friedman]

Why not just buy another pump--even one that is just good for parts--that has a good back plate and replace your current back plate with the new one. 

You don't state what year Cadillac the pump is for, but there should be one on ebay or available from one of the many Cadillac parts vendors.  I'm only familiar with parts availability for my own 1949 Cad, for which water pumps and their parts are readily available.

[Big Fins]

1934 LaSalle with an Olds Straight 8.

[Quentin Hall]

Don’t use jb. Send it to me. I’ll weld it up with a mig on the major holes and silver solder the rest. You cover postage and I’ll do it for free.

[Mike Baillargeon #15848]

Don’t use jb. Send it to me. I’ll weld it up with a mig on the major holes and silver solder the rest. You cover postage and I’ll do it for free.

Quentin that's a very generous offer and I thank you!! I might take you up on that but I'm going to try and figure this out here.


From what I understand Cadillac had Oldsmobile build the motors for the 34-35 LaSalle's to a Cadillac spec. The 34 water pump is a 1 year only pump....I've been looking for a year for another pump to have as a spare with no luck....

I'm leaning toward making a new plate and then welding on a dome/cap in the center of that plate to clear the impeller axle....that cap will have to be shallow like the original so the pump can still be bolted to the head/block...

Where am I going to find that dome/cap?

Mike

[savemy67]

Hello Mike,

I agree with the others that a newly fabricated plate may be the best choice in the long run.  The photos indicate the next pinhole is one driving tour away - extensive pitting of the inside of the cover plate.  Someone like Pete Sanders could fabricate a plate from steel, but I don't know if he has a press of sufficient tonnage to stamp steel of the same thickness as the original plate.

You may want to consider using stainless steel shim stock.  You can get a small piece (one square foot) for less than $20.  Shim stock is available in varying thicknesses - from a few thousandths of an inch to a few hundredths of an inch.  I would use a thin piece of shim stock to fabricate a "liner" for your corroded plate.  The liner needs to be thin enough so that it does not interfere with the impeller, nor cause the back of the plate to hit the block.  Using a liner allows you to keep the original plate in place.  This might be doable by hand.

I suggest stainless because of its anti corrosion properties.  You could go to sheet metal supplier and get a piece of sheet metal of sufficient thickness to make a new plate, but non-stainless steel will corrode sooner.

Respectfully submitted,

Christopher Winter

[fishnjim]

I agree with the one tour away leak scenario.   That's severely pitted, not just at the holes.   The base metal is porous and corroded anywhere it's black spots.   Soon as it sees a weld temp, it'll melt, ball up, and burn.   I had a thermostat neck like this and it was not repairable.   Had to use new metal.
   
I think one could easily be made from the proper gauge sheet metal.  (Who's going to see it back of the water pump?)   Cut out the bolt flange with the center hole from a flat piece of sheet metal.  I'd normally reuse the original flange but it's too far gone.   Cut an oversize disk of sheet metal and roll the edges to fit the hole.  Weld the seam shut water tight.   Has to be done properly to avoid warping, but I'd make that part by this method.   It's probably 11 ga of so plenty of beef.
This comes from stamping and not properly cleaning the surface of contaminates smashed in.   I had a modern diff cover do this which is much milder service, and when I bought a replacement from the factory it was almost in the same shape sitting off the shelf.   I had to blast and epoxy paint just to use it.

[harry s]

Pete Sanders has done several pieces for me always to my satisfaction. Harry

[Quentin Hall]

How about you start with a piece of Stainless plate the thickness of the stamped plate, looks about 1/2 inch. Machine out the middle and countersink the retaining bolt holes and use Allen head bolts . So long as the bolts don’t interfere with whatever is behind.

[TJ Hopland]

Does it have to have the dome?   Or could the 'dome' be machined into say a 1/2 thick piece of steel or aluminum?  Just longer bolts to reach through the now much thicker cover?     I was also thinking the plate could be flat then you make basically a thick gasket spacer sort of thing.   Further thinking about that if you could make the spacer you could also likely make the thick 1 piece version. 

There are all kinds of hobby level CNC machines available out there now that were designed for wood but people have found with the correct bits and some programming skills they can do metals.  I have seen people make working gears with them so something like this I think would be fairly easy.  I don't have one or know anyone with one so I can't help but I would think there would have to be someone out there.

[Ralph Messina CLC 4937]

Hi Mike,

Have you considered 3D printing in a metal or high performance plastic?