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Identifying works color of a 1941 Coupe

Started by manfredrusche, December 11, 2020, 10:36:41 AM

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manfredrusche

Who can help identify the color of my coupe when it has left the factory? Thanks for help!

Jeff Hansen

Sir,

You have a Special Order car as indicated by the presence of the SO number on the tag in your photo.  You have a couple of choices as to discovering the car's original color:


  • Try to find an out of the way spot in the car that has never been molested and see what the color is in that spot.  One possible place is underneath the tag you show in your picture.
  • Acquire the car's build sheet from GM/Allied Vaughan.  The build sheet *should* tell you what the original paint color was along with other details such as what was special ordered for this car.

I say *should* because while most build sheets will have that paint color information, occasionally some do not.

The link for information about getting the build sheet is https://www.cadillaclasalleclub.org/page/VehicleAuth

I hope this helps you.

Jeff
Jeff Hansen
1941 6019S Sixty Special
1942 7533 Imperial Sedan

Brad Ipsen CLC #737

Jeff,

From my experience in these years the data tag was painted so there is no original paint under the tag.  Unless a car has been completely dismantled, nut and bolt frame off restoration there is original paint somewhere.  One suggestion but not a sure thing is underneath the cowl vent.
Brad Ipsen
1940 Cadillac 60S
1938 Cadillac 9039
1940 Cadillac 6267
1940 LaSalle 5227
1949 Cadillac 6237X
1940 Cadillac 60S Limo

Bob Hoffmann CLC#96

Jeff,
I'm sure he appreciates your post. However... his SO could be interior as well. I NEVER would advise anyone to remove their data plate. I gave him the instructions on obtaining the build sheet several weeks ago. He could have had the sheet in his hands now....Not sure why he didn't do it?? Maybe I'm wasting my time giving info on this subject??
Bob
1968 Eldorado slick top ,white/red interior
2015 Holden Ute HSV Maloo red/black interior.
             
Too much fun is more than you can have.

manfredrusche

Jeff, thank you very much for the information. I will contact Allied Vaughan soon.
Thanks again, Manfred

manfredrusche

Bob, sorry, I never got a reply from you to my request for help identifying the factory equipment of my coupe.
That´s why I´ve sent my request to the forum. Your last email to me was dated 22nd of November.

Jeff Hansen

Brad and Bob, you are both, of course, correct.  I don't know what I was thinking when I typed that.  Clearly, a bad suggestion.

Manfred, please take Bob's and Brad's advice and don't remove the body tag from the car.  My apologies, I should have thought through that more before suggesting it.

Jeff
Jeff Hansen
1941 6019S Sixty Special
1942 7533 Imperial Sedan

Bob Hoffmann CLC#96

Quote from: manfredrusche on December 12, 2020, 07:28:20 AM
Bob, sorry, I never got a reply from you to my request for help identifying the factory equipment of my coupe.
That´s why I´ve sent my request to the forum. Your last email to me was dated 22nd of November.
The email with the info was sent on 11/27. It may be somewhere in your system.
Bob
1968 Eldorado slick top ,white/red interior
2015 Holden Ute HSV Maloo red/black interior.
             
Too much fun is more than you can have.

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

This car is "double SO" since both the trim and paint selections are non-stock.

As pointed out, SO details aren't normally revealed by the build sheet although in some cases they are. Just something to bear in mind before shelling out $50 to find out.
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

Bob Hoffmann CLC#96

Eric,
Please tell us why it's a double SO? And who pointed out that the SO details aren't revealed by the build  sheet?
Bob
1968 Eldorado slick top ,white/red interior
2015 Holden Ute HSV Maloo red/black interior.
             
Too much fun is more than you can have.

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

#10
Quote from: Bob Hoffmann CLC#96 on December 12, 2020, 01:17:13 PM
Eric,
Please tell us why it's a double SO? And who pointed out that the SO details aren't revealed by the build  sheet?
Bob

"Double SO" because neither interior (TRIM) nor PAINT codes are present. Most SO cars usually one or the other; both is rare.

Most times I've seen build sheets ordered for SO cars, rarely did they reveal anything but I will concede this was for later models ie: mid/late 50s and newer when build records are only a line item on the "Cars Built" sheet. 1941 might be (and probably is) different.   
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

Bob Hoffmann CLC#96

Eric,
Sorry ,but you are incorrect. Let's talk 1942 & earlier. One SO, no matter which one will cause both trim & paint to be missing from the data plate. The information he wants  WILL be on the build sheet, invoice. he receives. I have helped dozens of owners with invoice questions. I'm looking forward to helping him.
Bob
1968 Eldorado slick top ,white/red interior
2015 Holden Ute HSV Maloo red/black interior.
             
Too much fun is more than you can have.

manfredrusche

#12
I would like to know what trim number 3975 means? The original leather is still there. It is a two-tone dark green with tan. Very rare for a coupe.
Bob, would you please so kind and send me your email dated 27th Nov. again? It never got through to me or to my system. Thanks, Manfred

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

#13
Quote from: Bob Hoffmann CLC#96 on December 12, 2020, 11:22:11 PM
Eric,
Sorry ,but you are incorrect. Let's talk 1942 & earlier. One SO, no matter which one will cause both trim & paint to be missing from the data plate. The information he wants  WILL be on the build sheet, invoice. he receives. I have helped dozens of owners with invoice questions. I'm looking forward to helping him.
Bob

That's for the clarification Bob. Is 1942 and earlier therefore the point when SO automatically eliminated both codes? 

Any idea when they started doing the build sheets instead if detailed invoices - is that 1942 & earlier also?
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

Barry M Wheeler #2189

#14
Those high four digit codes are usually SO items. I found a 1941 60S in a parts yard in Plainfield, IN with enough unfaded original material that somewhere in my house (or lent out years ago) is a swatch of beautiful blue material with gold flecks woven so deep in the material that you think you're imagining them, rather than seeing them. I checked the #### (which I unfortunately didn't write down) against the SO items in the Master Parts Book when I got home, and it was not listed. So if had to come out of the extremely expensive super dooper swatches that were probably only cataloged in the larger dealerships.

In a flight of fancy one time I thought that there were possibly a dozen books made up of these rare materials. Manfred, one time I rode in a 1941 Brava Brown 62 coupe which was dark green leather all over including the headliner.

One of our IN region members has a 1941 Series 63 sedan that he found that the color was original by checking under the special belt molding used on the Series 63. I have told the story before (Sorry, Bob), but the car was SO'd at Capitol Cadillac, came in, and the owner didn't like it, so it sat on the lot. A lady needed a Series 63 black car TODAY, nothing available and when that happens, the Sales Manager takes over and lowers the price, right?

I'm waiting for dinner to cook so while we're talking about SO two tone cars, how about a two toned convertible? A member called me once wondering why his 41-6267 had two colors on the cowl plate. One was El Centro Green and the other he didn't mention.

It turns out that if you wanted a 1941 convertible two-toned, you could get it. In the third edition of Cadillacs of the Forties (Schneider) there is a small picture of a gaggle of GM show cars at the Waldorf. There is a light colored Cadillac convertible shown. Stare at it for some time and you will notice (finally) that the "A" pillars are painted black as is the top of the door above the belt indent around the back of the car. The car is either Cream or Yellow with a black top.

Also available on SO were special convertible tops in various colors. I spoke with Ed Haartz once on the phone and he said that they have some printed material from this era about Jonarts CleansEasy tops, but he hadn't had the time to check it out. If anyone is on good terms with him, you might jog him and see if he can't get into that material before it is tossed or otherwise lost. So, there were at least (2) two-toned 1941 Cadillac convertibles made.

Since a two-tone green/tan leather combo was commonly available, it is probable that the four digit # meant that it was the higher quality leather also available on SO.
Barry M. Wheeler #2189


1981 Cadillac Seville
1991 Cadillac Seville

manfredrusche

Barry, thank you so much for your thoughts. It was a long time ago and we cannot fully find out today, what was really possible back then with the S.O.s. Enclosing a picture of the original interior of the 62 Coupe. Thanks again, Manfred

Barry M Wheeler #2189

#16
With it in so great a shape, I would surmise that your car did have better quality leather. Very, very nice. Have you messed around in the trunk to try to find the original color? Or take the card board kick panels out carefully? Or the underside of the floor boards? Good luck. Beautiful car.

Try lifting a corner of the cloth somewhere on the trunk floor. There was also a SO black used on the body #1 custom 1941 60S. (His build sheet took five pages.)
Barry M. Wheeler #2189


1981 Cadillac Seville
1991 Cadillac Seville

Bob Hoffmann CLC#96

Quote from: manfredrusche on December 13, 2020, 05:45:28 AM
I would like to know what trim number 3975 means? The original leather is still there. It is a two-tone dark green with tan. Very rare for a coupe.
Bob, would you please so kind and send me your email dated 27th Nov. again? It never got through to me or to my system. Thanks, Manfred
Manfred,
3975 is the SO #. You'll see it when you get your invoice.
Read Jeff's #1 response. He provides a link directly to the company you need to contact.
Bob
1968 Eldorado slick top ,white/red interior
2015 Holden Ute HSV Maloo red/black interior.
             
Too much fun is more than you can have.

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

Bob Hoffmann CLC#96

Quote from: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on December 13, 2020, 11:33:22 AM
That's for the clarification Bob. Is 1942 and earlier therefore the point when SO automatically eliminated both codes?  Yes.

Any idea when they started doing the build sheets instead if detailed invoices - is that 1942 & earlier also? People started calling these build sheets. That's muscle car talk! An invoice shows the seller, Cadillac Motors SELLING a car to dealer ABC. It shows the basic car & any additional items, AT, Radio, white walls etc. MOST invoices had dealer cost prices. That's what dealer ABC owes Cadillac Motors. There's no build sheet involved.
Bob

1968 Eldorado slick top ,white/red interior
2015 Holden Ute HSV Maloo red/black interior.
             
Too much fun is more than you can have.