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Suggestions For Shoulder Harness Installation in '37 LaSalle

Started by carlhungness, January 06, 2021, 05:06:09 PM

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carlhungness

     Any suggestions from the membership as how to install modern over the shoulder harness/seat belt in my '37 LaSalle coupe. I realize I may have to do some fabrication and modify the new upholstery that will be fitted, but it only makes sense to install something other than a lap belt. Also have to figure out how to make the seat backs semi-permanent as they flop forward easily.

Abe Lugo

Hey Carl,
I would take a modern bench seat and see how it can be modified to fit the car.

I would suspect it would be a center version from a mini van that has shoulder belts built into the upper seat corner.

the other way would modify the existing frame to have a side lock for both pivoting backs, then add the upper lap system to the bench. Then the seat itself can look like an original seat.

Also being that is would be a modification from original, I would take the question to the modified board or a place like the HAMB where some of them do this type of model all the time.



Abe Lugo  CLC#31763  Sunny Los Angeles,CA @abelugo IG

fishnjim

Pull a couple plug wires then it won't go fast enough to worry about...
This can't be serious?

Cadman-iac

Quote from: fishnjim on January 07, 2021, 09:08:54 AM
Pull a couple plug wires then it won't go fast enough to worry about...
This can't be serious?

Yes, it's a big concern. Going slower doesn't slow down the idiot coming at you at 75 mph.
CLC# 32373
1956 Coupe Deville A/C car "Norma Jean"

joecadillac63

I installed a set in my '63 convertible when I restored it.  I can send you my restoration journal - it has pics and descriptions of what I did that may give you some ideas.  It also has the source where I bought them.  Maybe msg me with your email address - it's a pdf file.
Current:
1967 69347 Fleetwood Eldorado Coupe

Previous:
1963 6267 Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1969 69347 Fleetwood Eldorado Coupe

The Tassie Devil(le)

G'day Carl,

I have mentioned this many times, and the biggest concern is as you mentioned, the latching of the seat back, so it cannot move forward.

My '37 Chev Coupe had a wooden seat frame, and I had to totally change the seats and mounting system to later model seats.   I think I used Bucket Seats from a Volvo.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

tmdeturck

Hi Carl, we were planning on a similar operation with our 6019 we are rebuilding, to make it safer for the kids.  I am not sure how the coupe compares, but on the sedan it appears a mount can be placed on the divider between the front and rear door.  We were planning on mounting the retractor near the floor, mounting the center point of the harness just over the height of the seat on the top of the divider, and the other end mounted to the steel floorboards with appropriate fab and reinforcements added in all 3 places, and most of it should be out of sight.  We got these seatbelt kits https://www.wescoperformance.com/3-point-seat-belt-chrome-retr.html#_ga=2.191429289.2099096828.1605620524-334434295.1605620524 from wesco performance that have good reviews and attaching hardware, I'm sure there are other vendors who sell similar too.

Were you planning on attaching the shoulder part of the seat belt to the seat itself? Is that why the seat needs reinforcing?

We haven't begun the actual fab process yet ourselves (ours needs a LOT more other work first!) so I'm also curious what tips come out of this thread.

Terry
1963 Series 6229
1937 Series 6019

The Tassie Devil(le)

Quote from: tmdeturck on January 07, 2021, 07:33:00 PM
Were you planning on attaching the shoulder part of the seat belt to the seat itself? Is that why the seat needs reinforcing?   Terry     
I would not advise even thinking about using any part of the original seat or seat runners if you are intending to attach any part of the Seat Belt to said seat.

The problem is that you might reinforce everything, but without actual crash-testing, there is no way of knowing that what has been done will work.

No good finding out that it didn't work after the event.   Might have looked good.

Don't forget that the Factories spend millions of Dollars making and testing, before going into production, and that is just on one seat, and its' mounting.

Plus, don't forget that in 99% of cases, and vehicle with seat belts will have an energy-absorbing steering column.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

tmdeturck

Yeah, I didn't think attaching it to a part of the seat made any sense, that's why the question.  I'd stick to the steel body for adding mount points, if you add belts.  Otherwise, they'd be as good as that duct tape belt they tested on mythbusters!
1963 Series 6229
1937 Series 6019

39LaSalleDriver

I'm probably going to take heat for this, but I would ask "why?" I've pondered on it before. If you dig around enough on either this or the AACA forum, or perhaps both, you will find pretty much two schools of thought. The first camp is the ultra worried, won't get in any car that doesn't have them under any circumstance; the second are those that tend to view adding belts to cars of this vintage as a waste of time and nothing more than giving you a false sense of security.

As the owner of a 39, I tend to fall into the latter camp. Short of welding some serious steel under the car and into the pillars to anchor to, you might as well use duct tape. Having stripped my interior out completely I have seen first hand the construction in there, and let me tell you, there's not much that's going to stop a 200 lb. dead weight from ripping any anchor points loose on a moderate impact from what I can see. But going without modern safety gear is a risk I'm willing to take. Much like someone who decides to ride a motorcycle. God knows that I don't want to be involved in a wreck with my car for a million reasons, but by the same token, I see no point to owning one if I'm afraid to drive it. I just see no compelling arguments for spending hundreds if not thousands of dollars on safety gear that in all likelihood isn't going to save your bacon anyway. If others see it differently, I can respect that and encourage you to follow your own conscience.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPF4fBGNK0U

I do however strongly urge everyone to watch this video to get a hint at what we're dealing with when driving vintage/antique cars. I realize that it's not a Cadillac, but it is certainly very pertinent to this discussion and an important object lesson. Be warned though...after watching this, you may not want to drive another classic car again. It certainly changed my perspective of the superiority of driving "two tons of solid American steel" down the road vs. modern "plastic" cars.
Jon Isaacson

1939 LaSalle 5019

The Tassie Devil(le)

Further, I can attest to the damage that can be sustained to older cars impacting with newer cars, having controlled the Police Impound Yards where I live.   We had 3, one for Abandoned, one for Crashes, and the other for Fatalities.

In a lot of cases, no amount of protection will save anyone, especially if you are driving a Corvette, at excessive speed, and hit a bridge pylon.   Yes, the Bridge survived.

I have seen cars that have been totally destroyed, and the driver of the small car survived, but the larger Station Wagon driver didn't.   The small car was a 1990's Japanese import, and had all the bells and whistles.   Then there was the non-seatbelt fitted car "50's" where there were two beautiful dents in the dashboard, and yes, it was steel, and the occupant smashed his legs.   BUT, the car was an easier fix than the legs.

If I had the choice to decide which car I wanted to be in a crash, any crash, it would have to be the latest model of anything.   And I would be wearing my seat belt.

One thing to remember with the older cars, especially those that can flex a bit, a seat belt will contain you within the vehicle when the doors fly open.

But the best lifesaving tip is to drive to conditions, and be aware of everything around you, 360 Degrees, and if you are near an airport, always look up.   You won't be able to do much, but a bit of steering input and braking, and even acceleration could help.

I am not saying don't install seat belts, but saying that all matters have to be considered.

In Australia, they tried to make the retrofitting of seat belts compulsory in older cars, but that was scrapped when it was proven that the drilling of holes in the B Pillars to attach the shoulder belt, weakened the structure to such an extent that in some cases, the pillar could break, or decrease the side impartibility of the structure.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

tmdeturck

Oh yes, I agree with many of these points myself.  I don't know that it gives me a false sense of security, but rather I see it as providing some marginal increase in security.  If I wasn't gutting the interior of my car already, I might not bother with the installation.  There is no intention on my part to drive the car as if it has seat belts but rather to treat it like it doesn't - but have some marginal extra protection anyway.  Similar to getting a vaccine but still behaving like I'm not vaccinated (not that we want to discuss THAT topic)...

I'm not sure how Carl intends to use his LaSalle - for example, adding seat belts would not be justification for me to use it as a daily driver on any highway.  Maybe for someone else it is enough.  All depends on the level of risk you are willing to accept.
1963 Series 6229
1937 Series 6019

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

Pardon my bluntness but anybody that worried shouldn't be driving any older car to begin with.

Should also be pointed out that there are still fatalities in modern cars with the latest technology in occupant protection.
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

carlhungness

   First off, yes I posted a serious question. Second, I've already driven this '37 Coupe over 100,000 miles so I pretty much know what to expect. Third, I have been a motorcycle rider for 62 years and currently ride a $75,000 Vincent Black Shadow, in anger.
    My initial thought was to see if anyone has connected an over  the shoulder harness to the 'door pillar' and to have a look at their installation. I'm fully aware of the vagaries of the stock seat and capable of building an entirely new one or installing something out of another vehicle.
    It just seems like a good idea to have an over the shoulder harness if one is going to the trouble of installing lap belts.
    As far as being afraid to drive it, yes I am. I now consider the bulk of the population real idiots as I see upscale, educated folks yakking away on their cell phones and none believe the stats that say distracted driving accounts for a goodly percentage of all accidents. Most say, "Well, I don't hold the phone, so it's OK." No it's not, it is the conversation that is distracting.

The Tassie Devil(le)

Carl,

I will see if I can find my pictures of what I did to my '37 Chev Coupe, and send them to you, as I can't post them here.

This car was a true Hot Rod, and ran in the 13's on the 1/4 Mile, and the top speed was only restricted by the poor aerodynamic shape, causing the back to start to lift over 130 MPH.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe