Author Topic: WWW Tire Brown-wall & Other Lessons  (Read 1130 times)

Offline Harley Earl

  • Posts: 151
  • CLC Number: 32377
  • Name: M Ball
WWW Tire Brown-wall & Other Lessons
« on: February 01, 2021, 01:20:31 PM »
OK, so here we go again with TIRES, Coker tires specifically…Yeah, I know, I should have gone with the OTHER Vendor (Diamondbacks…) advised by my fine fellow CLC posters…Lessons to be learned here for others as I was smitten by the 10% Hagerty discount on Coker and the overall good impressions of Coker Tire in the Classic market…

Here goes; Purchased a set of five WWW Coker American Classic 235/70/R15 for the Series 61 in February 2020.  Even bought the extended warranty.  The Coker website said the 235/70/R15 was the proper size for the 1950 Series 61.  Unfortunately, they would not fit in the rear wheel wells, too wide.  Coker arranged for a quick return and five 800R15 American Classic pie crust WWW radials were ordered up and shipped quickly.  They fit well and looked great upon install.  About a month in, the left rear tire whitewall starts going brown.  I order up Coker’s WWW cleaner, use as directed and get some improvement.  Fast forward to cooler fall weather and there is no fixing the growing browning of this whitewall (wheel seals are checked and good, not using any tire dressing, just gentle non-abrasive cleaning with mild soap & h2o coupled with the Coker brand cleaner).  Call Coker in early January, am told this is most likely a defective tire, they will send a call tag for the brown-wall and get me a replacement.  Many calls, emails and the same promises later, I am still out a tire.  Coker said they had stock of the correct tire and the same promises were continually made of sending a call tag for a return and a replacement being sent.  Coker’s communication was prompt and responsive in word only up until last week.  I have been kind, patient and respectful in all of the communication with them up to the present day.  No call tag for the brown-wall, no replacement tire as of today…

Their extended warranty is basically worthless as per my current experience.  They are now not returning my kindly worded & infinitely patient emails…

Any suggestions on getting this resolved?  Forget about reversing the charges…Another lesson for us all below;

Do not purchase tires with American Express as their extended warranty does not apply to anything Automotive parts related (you get 60 days to contest tire quality).  Perhaps other members have experience with other CC companies that have extended warranty coverage on tires and automotive parts?
« Last Edit: February 01, 2021, 01:50:13 PM by Harley Earl »
Hoping for a Standard Trans Cimarron

Previous
1950 Series 61 Sedan - Savoy Gray
1974 Coupe de Ville - Victorian Amber Firemist
1959 Coupe de Ville - Brenton Blue
And 20 "other" Cadillacs from the 40s to the 80s

Offline Carfreak

  • Posts: 658
  • CLC Number: 5125
  • Name: SPashukewich
Re: WWW Tire Brown-wall & Other Lessons
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2021, 04:10:40 PM »
Perhaps reach out to Hagerty, explain you used their discount and see if they have a recommended contact person @ Coker to try to resolve your problem. 

Offline Harley Earl

  • Posts: 151
  • CLC Number: 32377
  • Name: M Ball
Re: WWW Tire Brown-wall & Other Lessons
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2021, 05:05:06 PM »
Perhaps reach out to Hagerty, explain you used their discount and see if they have a recommended contact person @ Coker to try to resolve your problem.

Excellent Advice!  I reached out to Hagerty and they wanted a copy of this posting to possibly assist.  I will advise via this post how this, hopefully..., gets resolved...
Hoping for a Standard Trans Cimarron

Previous
1950 Series 61 Sedan - Savoy Gray
1974 Coupe de Ville - Victorian Amber Firemist
1959 Coupe de Ville - Brenton Blue
And 20 "other" Cadillacs from the 40s to the 80s

Re: WWW Tire Brown-wall & Other Lessons
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2021, 05:29:50 PM »
You might try directing this sad story to Wade Kawasaki at Coker.

He is the CEO since Corky Coker retired a few years ago and sold
the company to an investment group.

Mike
1955 Cadillac Eldorado
1973 Cadillac Eldorado
1995 Cadillac Seville
2004 Escalade
1997 GMC Suburban 4X4, 454 engine, 3/4 ton
custom built by Santa Fe in Evansville, IN
2011 Buick Lucerne CX
-------------------------------------
CLCMRC Museum Benefactor #38
Past: VP International Affiliates, Museum Board Director, President / Director Pittsburgh Region

Offline Harley Earl

  • Posts: 151
  • CLC Number: 32377
  • Name: M Ball
Re: WWW Tire Brown-wall & Other Lessons
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2021, 05:40:57 PM »
You might try directing this sad story to Wade Kawasaki at Coker.

He is the CEO since Corky Coker retired a few years ago and sold
the company to an investment group.

Mike

Thank you Mike for the suggestion.  I will try Wade via an email guess.  If anyone has Wade's direct email please PM me.  The interwebs has no clues for his email...

"Investment Group" ownership ouch, that does not bode well...A possible issue is the prorated period starts this month, so maybe that is the holdup, I simply do not know...
« Last Edit: February 01, 2021, 05:50:17 PM by Harley Earl »
Hoping for a Standard Trans Cimarron

Previous
1950 Series 61 Sedan - Savoy Gray
1974 Coupe de Ville - Victorian Amber Firemist
1959 Coupe de Ville - Brenton Blue
And 20 "other" Cadillacs from the 40s to the 80s

Re: WWW Tire Brown-wall & Other Lessons
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2021, 05:55:23 PM »
I would recommend sending a letter to him with copies
of any correspondence from his people.  Include in the
letter a brief recap of your tribulations as you detailed
in your initial post.

Mike
1955 Cadillac Eldorado
1973 Cadillac Eldorado
1995 Cadillac Seville
2004 Escalade
1997 GMC Suburban 4X4, 454 engine, 3/4 ton
custom built by Santa Fe in Evansville, IN
2011 Buick Lucerne CX
-------------------------------------
CLCMRC Museum Benefactor #38
Past: VP International Affiliates, Museum Board Director, President / Director Pittsburgh Region

Offline 76eldo

  • Posts: 6648
  • CLC Number: 22443
  • Name: Brian Rachlin
Re: WWW Tire Brown-wall & Other Lessons
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2021, 06:31:40 PM »
It's a real shame that the company that Harold Coker started now has a reputation for substandard tires.  I was just talking to a friend last night that had a set of American Classics on a 61 Chrysler and had problems getting them balanced correctly.  After a while he gave up on them and ordered as set of DB's.

Corky Coker sold the company and I heard that the tires are now made in China. 

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
CLC # 22443
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

Offline Harley Earl

  • Posts: 151
  • CLC Number: 32377
  • Name: M Ball
Re: WWW Tire Brown-wall & Other Lessons
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2021, 07:47:00 PM »
UPDATE; Received a personal return email from Wade Kawasaki @ 1616 this afternoon.  He apologized and promised to look into this problem tomorrow morning.  I will update as soon as I hear back. 

I hold out hope that this is not a problem that continues over the life of these tires...

Thank you all for the great feedback and suggestions!
Hoping for a Standard Trans Cimarron

Previous
1950 Series 61 Sedan - Savoy Gray
1974 Coupe de Ville - Victorian Amber Firemist
1959 Coupe de Ville - Brenton Blue
And 20 "other" Cadillacs from the 40s to the 80s

Offline D.Smith

  • Posts: 1545
  • CLC Number: 17592
  • Name: Dave Smith
Re: WWW Tire Brown-wall & Other Lessons
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2021, 09:03:50 AM »
  and the overall good impressions of Coker Tire in the Classic market…
 

Really?    Not in the several past years.   Just because they have a huge presence at Hershey and offer discounts doesn't mean you shouldn't get feedback from recent users.     Even tire professionals refer to them as "Show tires, not go tires"

Cokers are great for trailer queens.   But if you want to drive highway speeds on them and use them regularly you will want to talk to users.



« Last Edit: February 02, 2021, 09:05:32 AM by D.Smith »

Offline Harley Earl

  • Posts: 151
  • CLC Number: 32377
  • Name: M Ball
Re: WWW Tire Brown-wall & Other Lessons
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2021, 09:45:22 AM »
Really?    Not in the several past years.   Just because they have a huge presence at Hershey and offer discounts doesn't mean you shouldn't get feedback from recent users.     Even tire professionals refer to them as "Show tires, not go tires"

Cokers are great for trailer queens.   But if you want to drive highway speeds on them and use them regularly you will want to talk to users.

Dave, I’m tending to agree with you!  As a “recovering” hot rodder that was originally a Cadillac guy from my single digits to my 40s, I have seen the dark side of the automotive aftermarket in recent years.  This has been especially true in the Hot Rod/Street RodModified segment in which I exited completely last year.  I experienced several vendors that valued sales over service towards the end of my time in that automotive segment.  Not the kind of experience that keeps folks interested in classic cars nor does it bring new blood into our hobby.  These experiences also contributed to me exiting NSRA & GoodGuys based on their alliances with poor aftermarket vendors.  I had NOT had the experience of using Coker before and the old timers in my previous Street Rod related car club suggested Coker because of long-standing experience and also via vendor relationships (Some were in this “business” too…).  Come to find out this “business” is generally a club that rewards those that “know” people in the business and, more often than not, ignores regular folks.  I am not one to normally utilize connections (even if I have many) as I like to give a company the benefit of the doubt/test them out.  Obviously, I should have listened to the advice already wisely espoused here…

On a more positive note, I have not found flagrant fleecing, poor service and poor product issues with most Cadillac related vendors.  In addition, our Club has been all-inclusive, kind, welcoming and informative since I went to my first meet in 1986.

The feedback from the kind members in this post is illustrative of the passion and integrity that a majority of our fellow Cadillac brothers and sisters share.  No fellow consumer or Cadillac owner should have to go through what I’ve gone through considering the amount of money that I spent on these tires.

Now, hopefully, I get wowed by Coker on this 11 month old tire sale. (Underpromise and overdeliver...to ensure a paying customer's complete satisfaction...).  A complete refund towards Diamondbacks would be nice/acceptable at this point…
« Last Edit: February 02, 2021, 02:12:20 PM by Harley Earl »
Hoping for a Standard Trans Cimarron

Previous
1950 Series 61 Sedan - Savoy Gray
1974 Coupe de Ville - Victorian Amber Firemist
1959 Coupe de Ville - Brenton Blue
And 20 "other" Cadillacs from the 40s to the 80s

Offline Jon S

  • Posts: 2555
  • Name: J. Schapiro
Re: WWW Tire Brown-wall & Other Lessons
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2021, 02:07:27 PM »
 I have nothing but good comments about Coker tires   My whitewalls stay beautifully white for months. A+++
Jon

1958 Cadillac Sedan De Ville
1973 Lincoln Continental Coupe
1981 Corvette
2004 Mustang GT

Offline fishnjim

  • Posts: 2416
  • Name: J. Bozin
Re: WWW Tire Brown-wall & Other Lessons
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2021, 03:43:44 PM »
How about posting a (color) close up picture of the "browning" that your tire is experiencing?  If the black part is browning that's different than the WW discoloring.
Interested to see what you're talking about and possible causes/remedies.   Lots of chemistry in rubber tires.   If they're from China, they should be marked in the DOT code.

There's a common missperception issue with substituting 235s for 8x15.   The metric equivalent for 8" is 205.   So they're upselling.   Sometimes, when the rear doesn't go on directly from the outside, one can put the tire under the drum face side down (put a cardboard or cloth down for WW) and raise/rotate up onto the hub.   There's more clearance this way.  You can deflate the tire also, but not recommended, as not serviceable from the road.   Also, they used bumper jacks for tire changes, so if you don't jack up the body right won't raise enough.
ps: my BFGs from them are still good after 5 years.


Offline Bob Schuman

  • Posts: 572
  • CLC Number: 254
  • Name: Robert Schuman
Re: WWW Tire Brown-wall & Other Lessons
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2021, 04:30:52 PM »
Mike,
This does not help your present tire issue, but may be for future reference.My 51-61 coupe has 235/75-R15 Diamondback tires, that look a little too big for that car, and will not fit into the spare tire well. My spare is a 225/75-R15 that does fit into the well. When my ten year old tires get replaced this  summer I intend to purchase 225/75-R15 tires The 235/75 tires do fit in the rear without rubbing against anything.
Bob Schuman
Bob Schuman, CLC#254
1951 6137
2017 CT6-unsatisfactory (repurchased by GM)
1948 Olds 98 Custom
2020 XT6

Offline gkhashem

  • Posts: 1117
  • CLC Number: 26576
  • Name: George K Hashem
Re: WWW Tire Brown-wall & Other Lessons
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2021, 04:34:50 PM »
Really?    Not in the several past years.   Just because they have a huge presence at Hershey and offer discounts doesn't mean you shouldn't get feedback from recent users.     Even tire professionals refer to them as "Show tires, not go tires"

Cokers are great for trailer queens.   But if you want to drive highway speeds on them and use them regularly you will want to talk to users.

Well that's an opinion, while I have not bought a tire since early 2018 from Coker, they are still white as can be. No problems, also I drive the cars that have them. (1959 Cadillac now sold, 1959 Oldsmobile, 1964 Oldsmobile, 1978 Cadillac all still white.)

So not sure where you get your facts from unless the tires have gone down recently.

The only modern tires I have luck with are Toyos, but they stopped making whitewalls in 2019. I bought 4 sets for $65-80 a tire for 4 different cars a 1991 Cadillac, 1992 Olds, 1996 Olds and my driver a 1999 Buick.  All still white even the Buick if I clean them. Also they were not extremely narrow but were a close match to the original white walls. (Extensa A/S I think)

I have Cooper steel belted radial whitewalls on three other cars bought from 2011-2018 and they get brown and really clean up so so. Too bad Toyo stopped making them since they seemed to be able to make them stay white.

I understand the poster he says the whitewalls turn brown. It's like something is bleeding through from behind the whitewall. Or it's like that on the Coopers.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2021, 04:36:42 PM by gkhashem »
1959 Oldsmobile 98 Holiday Sports Sedan
1964 Oldsmobile 98 Town Sedan (OCA 1st)
1970 GMC C1500
1977 Oldsmobile 98 Regency Coupe
1978 Cadillac Coupe Deville (Sr Crown #959)*
1984 Oldsmobile Delta 88 Royal Brgham Coupe (OCA 1st)
1991 Oldsmobile Toronado Trofeo (OCA 1st)
1991 Cadillac Eldorado Biarritz (Sr #838)
1992 Oldsmobile 98
1996 Oldsmobile 98
*PastPres

Offline Lexi

  • Posts: 1996
  • CLC Number: 28634
  • Name: C.R. Foley
Re: WWW Tire Brown-wall & Other Lessons
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2021, 05:25:47 PM »
I bought a new set of 4 Coker wide white bias ply 820-15 Firestone 3 1/2 inch white walls, (item #613118), in the fall of 2018, & had them installed in 2019. Prior to installation they were stored in tire bags. Shortly after installation they began showing signs of cracking, (on the whitewalls). Vehicle stored indoors and not driven in harsh weather. I did not use any regular white wall cleaners in case that would aggravate the problem. I did purchase Coker's white wall cleaner which I tried on some spare tires and it proved to be absolutely useless. Even the Coker salesman hinted at this when I bought that product on sale. Most of the time I used soap and water, and sparingly at that. That did not seem to help. One of the tires now looks to be a slightly different color, turning a yellow-brown tone. Faint, but noticeable. Why not the others? These tires replaced a set of identical Cokers that had aged well, but for reasons of wear and safety, I decided to change them. Also, one of the older set of tires could not be balanced, even with stacked sticker weights.

I do like the look of Coker's product a lot, I just don't think they should be showing premature signs of aging as discussed, (especially considering their cost). They seem like a good company to deal with and I hope they fix what appears to be a quality control issue. Clay/Lexi

Re: WWW Tire Brown-wall & Other Lessons
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2021, 05:59:53 PM »
Whitewalls turning brown is an issue caused by
improper or inferior tire construction.

There are chemical additives in tire rubber that can
contribute to this problem, especially the antiozonants.
These compounds require that a layer of a special type
of rubber called a "barrier" be placed under the whitewall
portion when the tire is being constructed.

The brown discoloration called "blooming" in the trade
is caused by these compounds migrating from the black
rubber up into the whitewall -- due to lack of or poorly
applied barrier piece during construction.

There is no real cure for this as a good cleaning may help
initially but the brown discoloration will continue.

It speaks to poor quality control during the manufacturing
process.

This is one reason that Diamondback tires are so expensive
and have the best reputation for their excellent whitewalls.
They apparently have the process down pat.

Mike


1955 Cadillac Eldorado
1973 Cadillac Eldorado
1995 Cadillac Seville
2004 Escalade
1997 GMC Suburban 4X4, 454 engine, 3/4 ton
custom built by Santa Fe in Evansville, IN
2011 Buick Lucerne CX
-------------------------------------
CLCMRC Museum Benefactor #38
Past: VP International Affiliates, Museum Board Director, President / Director Pittsburgh Region

Offline TJ Hopland

  • Posts: 10182
Re: WWW Tire Brown-wall & Other Lessons
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2021, 06:07:50 PM »
I suppose one issue could be that tire compounds keep changing but since even white lettering has fallen out of favor the people coming up with the new compounds do bother testing or coming up with ways to do the white anymore.     People that want white walls can't just keep using an old formula because the chemicals may no longer be available or not work in their current machines. 
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Offline Harley Earl

  • Posts: 151
  • CLC Number: 32377
  • Name: M Ball
Re: WWW Tire Brown-wall & Other Lessons
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2021, 06:26:29 PM »
Update- Thank you all for the extensive, kind and detailed feedback.  Coker has made this right with several different options that were all considerate, appropriately apologetic and generous for me to choose.  I believe in multiple chances at redemption so I’ll give Coker another try.

Some background; The bias plys that were replaced in early 2020 were Denman 8.00/R15.  They fit great, were still bright white but were aged/hard bias plys with terrible road manners. 

The Coker recommended/supplied initial 235/75/15 radial tire did not properly fit in the rear wheel wells on my Series 61.  They were sent back and immediately substituted with Coker’s pie crust American Classic model 800R15 radial tire.  The Coker 800R15 radial was a perfect fit on my Series 61, has driven well and looks outstanding.  The non-brownwall models hold the whitewall color well & have cleaned easy for approximately 500 miles.  The black section of the sidewall stays relatively clean/black as well.  The Coker 800R15 does fit perfectly in the spare tire well on my car.

I could have chosen to go the full replacement route but that would entail more dismounting, shipping/taxes mounting and balancing with possible unknown "labor/time-sucking" sizing issues.   Less time driving is a severe detractor for me!  A few extra chances with a decent warranty; we will see how it goes.  I will not hesitate to continue to share my experiences here for all to observe and come to their own conclusions.

Many thanks again, hopefully the great brownwall saga of 2021 will end soon…

Now we just need to find a credit card that offers an extended warranty on AUTO RELATED PARTS & TIRES (Like a few years...); car person Valhalla with today’s parts “quality” issues…
« Last Edit: February 02, 2021, 07:15:13 PM by Harley Earl »
Hoping for a Standard Trans Cimarron

Previous
1950 Series 61 Sedan - Savoy Gray
1974 Coupe de Ville - Victorian Amber Firemist
1959 Coupe de Ville - Brenton Blue
And 20 "other" Cadillacs from the 40s to the 80s

Offline novetti

  • Posts: 90
  • Name: Julio Novetti
Re: WWW Tire Brown-wall & Other Lessons
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2021, 06:54:43 PM »
Recently (2wks ago) I fitted a set of L78 15's in my 54 Iris.

They are challenging to mount (seat the bead), required the combination of ratchet strap, bicycle tube and air cannon tricks to get them seated. Tubeless assembly.

I cleaned the rims well and gave a light spray of paint in the shoulder areas  where the beads would seat again. The rims are original to the vehicle, 3 of them had tubes inside when I pulled them apart.

2 tires didn't required any weights at static balancing, the other 2 normal weights.

Drove around 80 miles so far and no vibrations, holding pressure (no leaks) and smooth driving.

Tires where purchased from via Summit from Coker in 2017.

Bead Seating Video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrNAv2ot20g


« Last Edit: February 04, 2021, 12:03:23 AM by novetti »
54' Iris Blue (Preservation)
54' Cabot Gray (Restoration)
58' Lincoln Continental Convertible (Restoration)
58' Ford Skyliner (Preservation)

Offline fishnjim

  • Posts: 2416
  • Name: J. Bozin
Re: WWW Tire Brown-wall & Other Lessons
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2021, 09:40:39 AM »
Glad you got this resolved to your satisfaction.   
Maybe we all need to be a bit more patient during these times with our vendors.   Things are getting worse in shipping and response time as the epidemic rages.  Inventories are low, regardless of what we hear from the Govt or media.   
Tire market has been shaken up with a lot of global players, so caveat emptor always applies.   It's no longer the US Big 3 option like is was when that '50s car was born.   Akron was "the" tire place, not any more.  eg; There's a new foreign owned tire plant nearby me in SC.   So it's a low price driven market now.   
There's much more complication to tire making today, as Mike alludes.   The "rubber" isn't even "rubber" these days.   Long way from spilling sulfur on a hot plate.   I prefer to investigate, not speculate, when it comes to issues.
Something to consider when you order tires, how do you get issues resolved?   
The L78 photos: Those 50-70 numbers are the aspect ratio, so a high aspect like 78 is a taller thinner tire which is more in line with the OEM 8x15s bias ply and why they fit better.   So not just the tread width, WW size, and rim size applies when choosing replacements.   This has been a hard point to get across.   People like it easy, like "235s".
Price is also volume/market related and not truly indicative of "quality".   So it's a tough call, I can see why people huddle around these forums for other's brand opinions. 
One even has to look at the manufacturing location as to quality(coded in the DOT number).   That's played a factor in some of these tire issues.


 

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