1970 Caddy oil filter NOS PF-30 or new Technology ?

Started by Bill Balkie 24172, March 03, 2021, 07:58:07 PM

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Roger Zimmermann

Interesting: the wrench for the oil filter is delivered with the filters!
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

TJ Hopland

I didn't notice the filter wrench.   You should not need it on this car.  Filters on these stick out the front so you can get a good grip on em with your hand.   If the installer used a wrench then who knows, if they did that kind of wrench won't likely do it.  Only ones that I can think of that are easier than these is if you got a Ford with an inline.  I don't think its possible to get easier to access than those. 
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Roger Zimmermann

When I had my '80 Olds Cutlass, the space was too tight (and the filter too hot) to unscrew it with the hands. I had a similar tool which I gave to a colleague because I had no car anymore with that kind of filter.
Now, with my '72 de Ville, I will need one again!
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

TJ Hopland

Most V8's can be a little tight because many had a rear distributor which means rear oil pump which also means rear oil filter and they tended to hang down near the block and or oil pan so getting a good grip on them wasn't always easy.   The nature of the V engine often meant you could not get to them from above.   That is where the classic inlines win,  they were usually just stuck out the side of the block.

The 1970's seemed to be when an oil change started to get complicated.   Hard to get to filters that once you do get to drain oil down onto other stuff.   71-78 Eldo's the filter drains onto the sway bar unless you do something like use the cardboard from the new filter box to deflect it a bit.   GM had their 88-99 4x4 trucks where the oil filter lubricated the front U joint.   We are not even going to talk about what the heck Cadillac was thinking on the transverse engines 85-95,  possibly the all time winner for hard to get to and make a huge mess because they were above the bellhousing.
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Bill Balkie 24172

Quote from: TJ Hopland on March 05, 2021, 03:31:36 PM
I would do the fuel filter first.   By far the worst one to do.   For some reason getting the steel line loose so you can unscrew the big nut that holds the filter in is always difficult.   At least in the case of it being in the pump its not as fragile as the super fine threads into aluminum on the carbs but its a little harder to get to location.   I guess you could start draining the oil and then go to work on the fuel filter while its draining.   
T.J. You mentioned the fuel filter . Before I tackle the fuel filter it looks like there is a gasket on the 1 1/4 nut that holds the filter in place . Do you know where I can get the gasket for that nut that hold the filter in place .
Thank you Bill
Bill Balkie
1970 Coupe DeVille
2009 CTS

TJ Hopland

I do not know where to get that gasket.   From memory its a hard gasket.  Its either metal with maybe a coating or a hard fiber material.  I don't recall that gasket being an issue when I have messed with these things.    I think I have a pump laying under my workbench that I can try and remember to check tomorrow.  Maybe I can at least measure it so you can look for something similar.   
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

cadillacmike68

Delco PF 24 for the V8 472-500s. No issues and I have had some in storage here for years.
Regards,
"Cadillac" Mike

CaddyShackPA

#27
Perhaps the best answer has already been offered - that it's very possible to overthink this. For cars that typically get such limited and easy use, any decent brand-name filter is unlikely to cause you grief. I would not chance the use of decades-old filters no matter how nice they looked, for fear that the media could detach / collapse / shred and wreak havoc - or just perforate against the center tube and result in a bypass you would never know about. It's also possible that the media-sealing glue had deteriorated - or the bypass spring had relaxed over time - and in either case, again less oil would be filtered. Too many potential perils.

Still, it's often fun to overthink things. A couple thoughts: An oil filter can be extremely well made, and still not do a very good job of filtering the oil. At least one brand mentioned here has very impressive construction quality, a better-quality coiled compression spring, superior anti-drainback valve, and a superior bypass valve, along with above-average filter media area. However, that media is on the 'loose' side for filtering efficiency metrics, and it's not a filter whose measured performance you'd brag about despite how well-made it is. Still, it's revered for its 'quality' and no one bashes it, because modest (some would say mediocre) filtration efficiency isn't something you can readily see.

Filter media selection is a complex compromise - an interplay between flow restriction, filtering efficiency, and dirt handling capacity. Some of the highest-efficiency filters result in greater pressure drop across the media - which could result in the filter spending more time in bypass (e.g. when oil is cold and / or the engine is revving high and creating large flow rates) - which means no filtration at all in that regime, because very few automotive filters do any filtering during bypass mode (indeed, on many engines the bypass is in the filter adapter and not in the filter at all). Such filters can also cause notably less oil pressure at hot idle - say, several psi worth in my testing. The pressure drop of hyper-efficient media can be countered by increasing the surface area - but there's a practical limit there within the constraints of each individual filter size.

Today many people buy super-efficient filters for their home furnaces, after seeing the claims about allergens and viruses and what not - without realizing that the tighter filter causes increased pressure drop and can lead to reduced airflow with implications for temperature rise, heat exchanger life, blower motor life and energy consumption, etc. In airflow as in oil flow, a more efficient filter is an appealing concept when considered in a vacuum - but that's not where furnaces or car engines spend their time.

One of the oil filter brands reviled in the past for its - shall we say - cardboard construction - today makes premium filter lines that are of very high quality design and materials and also offer impressive measured efficiency performance. Cut one open for yourself if you remain skeptical - these are impressive products. They and their like from other manufacturers exist for one reason: people will buy them, and they are often a multiple of the price (and thus profit?) of a conventional filter. The question is whether they're really worth it. For engine wear impact, a hyper-efficient oil filter presents an easily grasped, apparent benefit. However, evidence seems to indicate that for engines that receive reasonable oil and filter service intervals, the incoming air filtration is at least as if not more important in determining engine wear - so don't neglect the importance of the filter decision you make on the top side of the engine, as well as the bottom - and be careful to ensure there are no leaks that bypass dirty air around the filter.

Someone mentioned oil and additives. It's true that the ZDDP levels plummeted after API SL became SM and then SN, etc. - dropping from some 1100-1300 ppm to perhaps 800 ppm in today's formulations. It's not gone - it's just been cut by about a third to help catalytic converters last longer. The newest formulations have also made changes to anti-wear and detergent chemistry to improve timing chain life and reduce LSPI (low speed pre-ignition) in modern turbo engines. The missing zinc was incredibly effective in preventing wear at the high-pressure contact zone between cam lobe and flat tappet. 

For our Cadillacs, there are aggravating and mitigating factors. The small base circle dimension of the camshaft in our engines - say, from 1949 thru 1981 - perhaps creates more susceptibility to lobe and lifter wear with the reduction in zinc. However, these engines also have very mild valve spring pressures and low operating speeds - which tends to reduce the incidence of failure while also making valve seat recession in the absence of lead a lesser problem than it might be on other designs.

For my own fleet, I use OEM filters like the FL1A and PF24 on the antiques (they just look right!), and I do like the (perceived?) benefits of hyper-efficient filters (Boss, Pure One, Ultra) on our modern vehicles. The flat tappet cars do get oil with more-than-SM levels of ZDDP, such as Brad Penn, Valvoline VR1, Z-Rod, etc.   Note that diesel oils were once an easy go-to for higher anti wear concentrations - but that's no longer automatically the case so check the spec sheets on current product.





   
J. Papciak   #23864     
'59 Coupe DeVille
'69 Eldorado  
'72 Coupe DeVille  
'77 Seville
‘81 Fleetwood Brougham  
‘89 Brougham 
'92 Sedan DeVille  
‘95 Fleetwood  
'02 STS   '10 CTS-V   ‘17 CTS

Cape Cod Fleetwood

Bill, if you want to be really authentic you could look for 51 year old fuel to go with those 51 year old filters.
I'm joshing...
Prior to The Ark's engine rebuild I always used the correct PF 24 and Lucas Hot Rod Oil, no oil has more zinc in it and its
added during the refining process vs a separate additive. Always a better choice.
Post rebuild Jimmy Reid told me to use HR4 for oil and Wix filter #51258.
If Jimmy told me to use elephant pi$$ for oil and a handful of tampons for a filter I would have done that too, so YMMV.
This is a car that gets driven a LOT.
There are 2 kinds of cars in the world, Cadillac and everything else....

The Present -1970 Fleetwood Brougham

The Past -
1996 Deville Concours
1987 Sedan De Ville "Commonwealth Edition"
1981 Coupe De Ville (8-6-4)
1976 Sedan De Ville
1975 Sedan De Ville

The Daily Driver and work slave -
2008 GMC Acadia SLT *options/all

James Landi

Laurie,

Terrifically comedic response.  So, I laughed out loud, and my better seven eighths (my wife) asks, "So what's so funny?"  I attempt to explain that you''re one of the only women who write on the site, and then hoping she'll understand the humor-- oh well, sometimes, best to laugh internally.   Keep "those cards and letters coming."  Gratefully,  James

Cape Cod Fleetwood

Quote from: James Landi on March 10, 2021, 07:47:50 AM
Laurie,

Terrifically comedic response.  So, I laughed out loud, and my better seven eighths (my wife) asks, "So what's so funny?"  I attempt to explain that you''re one of the only women who write on the site, and then hoping she'll understand the humor-- oh well, sometimes, best to laugh internally.   Keep "those cards and letters coming."  Gratefully,  James

If its any consolation, you're not the first married man I've gotten in trouble...  ;)
There are 2 kinds of cars in the world, Cadillac and everything else....

The Present -1970 Fleetwood Brougham

The Past -
1996 Deville Concours
1987 Sedan De Ville "Commonwealth Edition"
1981 Coupe De Ville (8-6-4)
1976 Sedan De Ville
1975 Sedan De Ville

The Daily Driver and work slave -
2008 GMC Acadia SLT *options/all

1976Deville

WIX or Napa. AC Delco are made in China. Frame never

cadillacmike68

Quote from: 1976Deville on March 28, 2021, 11:59:40 AM
WIX or Napa. AC Delco are made in China. Frame never

Not the AC ones I have.

It's Fram and yes no way!
Regards,
"Cadillac" Mike