Author Topic: Cadillac Lyriq, road trips and range concerns  (Read 1581 times)

Offline chrisntam

  • Posts: 3472
  • Dallas, Texas
  • CLC Number: 29206
  • Name: Chris Jessen
Cadillac Lyriq, road trips and range concerns
« on: April 24, 2021, 03:16:44 PM »
Cadillac is slated to end ICE (internal combustion engine) production 9 years from now.  GM (some or most models) by 2035.

Cadillac is nearing taking orders (September 2021) and releasing the Lyric for the 2023 model year.  From what I understand, it has a range of 300 miles.  You can quick charge it for 10 minutes and go another 76 miles.

Around town, I'm cool with that.  But what if my destination is 400 miles, 500 miles or 600 miles away? 

1) Do I budget in time (how many hours) for a full recharge?  How long?
2) What if there's a waiting line to charge my car?
3) Will restaurants and hotels have a charging station at each parking space?
4) What will the cost of electricity be at these charging stations?  Similar to prices paid at home or sky-high prices?

Seems like the Lyriq and it's electric brothers & sisters are nice around town cars but are not ready for prime time over the road trips.

Am I missing something?  Does Cadillac have a plan for a road trip car?  Sounds like there won't be any "owned" Lyriqs at the GNs unless the owner is near the destination.

I'd seriously look at buying one but the range limit is a non-starter.  I'm at the stage of my life that I want more than an around town car.

Seems like we have a loooooong way to go in only 9 or 14 years.  Cart before the horse?

Thoughts?



1970 Deville Convertible 
Dallas, Texas

Re: Cadillac Lyriq, road trips and range concerns
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2021, 03:34:52 PM »
I still don't think they've thought this whole thing thru.....

We'll need one of these to follow us around for that quick charge for another  "76 miles"

Mike
Mike Baillargeon  #15848

Offline chrisntam

  • Posts: 3472
  • Dallas, Texas
  • CLC Number: 29206
  • Name: Chris Jessen
Re: Cadillac Lyriq, road trips and range concerns
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2021, 03:40:13 PM »
I still don't think they've thought this whole thing thru.....
1970 Deville Convertible 
Dallas, Texas

Re: Cadillac Lyriq, road trips and range concerns
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2021, 06:53:21 PM »
I agree with the OP.  I stated a long time ago that
these lithium battery cars were not ready for prime
time.  Did you read about the recent Tesla crash
where 2 people were turned into crispy critters due
to the battery pack igniting after a crash?
https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/18/22390612/two-people-killed-fiery-tesla-crash-no-driver

The local fire department used over 30,000 gallons of
water to finally extinguish the fire (that's about 7
tanker trucks).  The lithium batteries kept re-igniting.
Look at the pics in the attached article.  Do you really
want to drive one of these?

They'll have to develop a safer and more advanced
form of electrical energy to power the "electric car"
of the future.  This will not happen in the time frame
being promoted to go all electric.

Mike
« Last Edit: April 24, 2021, 06:57:26 PM by Mike Josephic CLC #3877 »
1955 Cadillac Eldorado
1973 Cadillac Eldorado
1995 Cadillac Seville
2004 Escalade
1997 GMC Suburban 4X4, 454 engine, 3/4 ton
custom built by Santa Fe in Evansville, IN
2011 Buick Lucerne CX
-------------------------------------
CLCMRC Museum Benefactor #38
Past: VP International Affiliates, Museum Board Director, President / Director Pittsburgh Region

Offline The Tassie Devil(le)

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 12395
  • CLC Number: 18992
  • Name: Bruce Reynolds
Re: Cadillac Lyriq, road trips and range concerns
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2021, 09:12:52 PM »
All I will say is that the travelling public will simply have to adapt to whatever is put in their way.

Maybe having to take a long time to recharge might enable occupants on a long trip, time to revive themselves for the next leg of their trip.   No more driving for 10 hours at a time.

Can't see any EV in my future, as by the time they hit the used car market, at a price that I can afford, I will be long gone from this world.

Bruce. >:D

PS.   But, as I say, never say never, as things can, and do change.
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Offline mgrab

  • Mike Grabianowski, CLC # 25586
  • Posts: 99
Re: Cadillac Lyriq, road trips and range concerns
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2021, 09:29:43 PM »
This weeks crash 'n burn is not the first.. few of these under investigation.  Clearly, they weren't operating the car safely if no one was behind the wheel but, should the punishment be burning to death?  A friend of mine has wanted one of these for a few years now.  When the physician died in one a couple years ago I sent him the article and said he should ask the dealer if you get a copy of The Wicker Man.  I sent him this one too and his response was "Darwin wins again".  A short time later I read the owner was a physician.  I drive through and in Atlanta a couple times a week.  Most days there are at least 2-3 major accidents with a jacked up red or black truck and a Challenger.  A few weeks ago I saw a Mercedes on top of a minivan on the downtown connector (don't even know how you do that).  I only see two, maybe three Teslas a day. Most drive conservatively that I see... have a GA Tech sticker in window etc.. what happens when everyone is forced to drive these things?  I don't think there's enough water on the planet to put out that many fires.  I get it statistically speaking they are safer however, if asked to rank first to last all the ways I'd want to die in a car - last, dead last is burned to death.  There's a reason the saying is burning in hell, it's the worst thing that can happen to you.
1941 Cadillac 6267D
1948 Packard Custom Eight Victoria
1956 Oldsmobile 88 Sedan

Offline Abe Lugo

  • Posts: 172
  • CLC Number: 31763
  • Name: Abe Lugo
Re: Cadillac Lyriq, road trips and range concerns
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2021, 11:26:06 PM »
One thing I don’t see being talked about is the subscription-like service that you will have to keep paying on a car you “own”
I guess we would have to think of our cars like a smart phone and app can be free but you have pay up for the better version. 

One such example of this is that Tesla actually have a farther range than spec’d.  Depending on the level of the model you purchased  they lock out features.  You know likeLudacris mode. Even the autopilot. Then you will have to your car unlocked at some point to access all these feature without handing to pay up. 

The right to self repair is something being fought for hard in Europe.  Just like apple doesn’t like someone unlocking or repairing phones. 

Just some food for thought.
Abe Lugo  CLC#31763  Sunny Los Angeles,CA @abelugo IG

Offline Jamurray

  • Posts: 171
  • Name: J Murray
Re: Cadillac Lyriq, road trips and range concerns
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2021, 10:40:16 AM »
I live in Connecticut. I see more than a few Teslas with California tags. They had to get here somehow, and I doubt they got here on a truck. When we go out to dinner, the most we'd ever drive would never exceed 200 miles. There are a lot of electrics out there with that much range. The IC engine in today's cars has just become too complicated for its own good.

I work part time for a new car dealer. The brand is not a domestic maker. They make two models: those that have had engines replaced and those that soon will. I'm not sure that brand is unique.

I remember when cast iron V8s were bulletproof. Those days are gone. I'm of the opinion the electric motor is the power plant of the future.

Offline Cape Cod Fleetwood

  • Posts: 2513
  • CLC #31411
  • Name: Laurie Kraynick
Re: Cadillac Lyriq, road trips and range concerns
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2021, 01:29:19 PM »
Mike 30k gallons of water didn't put that fire out. The fire triangle simply closed when it ran out of
material to burn. But I love that fact 30K gallons of highly contaminated water entered the 'eco system' as
a result of a 'green' car, choking on the irony.

Water makes a Class D fire worse. AFFF won't work, even Halon makes it worse.

Only a dry powder, like sodium chloride, will put out a D fire reliably. MET-L-X and Novacool come to mind.
FedEx is the process of upgrading all of their aircraft's on board fire suppression systems to these since so much cargo includes lithium batteries. What's in the cargo area of your simple flight to Miami on "brand x airlines"? And has their fire suppression systems been upgraded?

So local and highway fire departments will have to buy/train with Class D fire trucks now, and how soon
before the next 'victim' of an electric car fire sues the state or municipality for NOT having a Class D truck immediately available? And who's going to pay for those trucks?

Maybe it will take a few more disasters before NHTSA declares these cars are too dangerous for the public in their current state of production.

If driving a 'green' car like Lyriq/Tesla etc makes you feel good, have fun, its America. Just remember you're not going too far and if it catches fire you're doomed if you don't get out in time and the car will be a total loss. Maybe the insurance companies could refuse to insure them because of this, that would help end this lunacy.

GM will be out of business in 9 years with this current thinking. Actually GM and other producers of consumer durables will be out of business/dramatically negatively impacted in less than a year so that point is moot. Full disclosure I've already sold any and all consumer durables stocks.

I'm really going to miss the Cadillac brand. But that's the least of our worries right now.

Oh, and enjoy your Lyriq!!!!
There are 2 kinds of cars in the world, Cadillac and everything else....

The Present -1970 Fleetwood Brougham

The Past -
1996 Deville Concours
1987 Sedan De Ville "Commonwealth Edition"
1981 Coupe De Ville (8-6-4)
1976 Sedan De Ville
1975 Sedan De Ville

The Daily Driver and work slave -
2008 GMC Acadia SLT *options/all

Re: Cadillac Lyriq, road trips and range concerns
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2021, 05:24:39 PM »
Hi Laurie:

Interesting comment.  You are correct, the fire
wasn't put out by the water -- these fires have
to burn themselves out.  That was the story in
the media. See below for the real story.

However, your chemistry is a little off base. 
Lithium batteries actually do not contain any
lithium metal.  Instead, they contain lithium
hydroxide dissolved in an organic solvent,
that creates the batteries electrolyte solution. 
In a situation such as an accident and fire, each
kilo of lithium hydroxide will emit 2,800 liters
of hydrogen gas which is extremely flammable
(remember the Hindenburg).

The resulting fire is more than hot enough to melt
steel.

The proper classification is a "Class B flammable liquid"
and the proper extinguisher would be an ABC or BC
type for smaller fires.

For a fire like the Tesla created, a mist of water is
usually sprayed on the fire to keep the temperature
down and prevent the spread of the flames.
The fire eventually (sometimes takes days) will burn
itself out.  That's why so much water was used.

For additional information:
https://www.airseacontainers.com/blog/how-to-put-out-lithium-battery-fire/

Mike
« Last Edit: April 25, 2021, 06:55:09 PM by Mike Josephic CLC #3877 »
1955 Cadillac Eldorado
1973 Cadillac Eldorado
1995 Cadillac Seville
2004 Escalade
1997 GMC Suburban 4X4, 454 engine, 3/4 ton
custom built by Santa Fe in Evansville, IN
2011 Buick Lucerne CX
-------------------------------------
CLCMRC Museum Benefactor #38
Past: VP International Affiliates, Museum Board Director, President / Director Pittsburgh Region

Offline TJ Hopland

  • Posts: 10183
Re: Cadillac Lyriq, road trips and range concerns
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2021, 05:32:04 PM »
Do you suppose the conversation was similar 100 or so years ago?   Why give up your horse or mule?   Why would you ever want to go more than 10 or 20 miles in a day?
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Offline Glen

  • Posts: 2789
  • CLC Number: 727
  • Name: Glen Houlton
Re: Cadillac Lyriq, road trips and range concerns
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2021, 01:40:01 AM »
Do you suppose the conversation was similar 100 or so years ago?   Why give up your horse or mule?   Why would you ever want to go more than 10 or 20 miles in a day?

...and why would you want to carry around 5 gallons of that very flammable gasoline?   

And if you were out late you could doze off and the horse would take you right to your door. 
« Last Edit: April 26, 2021, 01:42:37 AM by Glen »
Glen Houlton CLC #727 
CLCMRC benefactor #104

Offline MaR

  • Posts: 983
  • Name: Mitchell Radford
Re: Cadillac Lyriq, road trips and range concerns
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2021, 02:08:38 PM »
I agree with the OP.  I stated a long time ago that
these lithium battery cars were not ready for prime
time.  Did you read about the recent Tesla crash
where 2 people were turned into crispy critters due
to the battery pack igniting after a crash?
https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/18/22390612/two-people-killed-fiery-tesla-crash-no-driver

The local fire department used over 30,000 gallons of
water to finally extinguish the fire (that's about 7
tanker trucks).  The lithium batteries kept re-igniting.
Look at the pics in the attached article.  Do you really
want to drive one of these?

They'll have to develop a safer and more advanced
form of electrical energy to power the "electric car"
of the future.  This will not happen in the time frame
being promoted to go all electric.

Mike
This article has already been confirmed as false by the fire chief that was on scene.

“With respect to the fire fight, unfortunately, those rumors grew way out of control. It did not take us four hours to put out the blaze. Our guys got there and put down the fire within two to three minutes, enough to see the vehicle had occupants. After that, it was simply cooling the car as the batteries continued to have a chain reaction due to damage."

Offline MaR

  • Posts: 983
  • Name: Mitchell Radford
Re: Cadillac Lyriq, road trips and range concerns
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2021, 02:16:32 PM »
As for charging, I suggest that you take a look a www.plugshare.com to get an idea of what charging is available in the areas you commonly travel. When filtering for DC fast chargers, use the CCS plug as that is what the Lyriq will have. There are a number of different charging networks (think gas station brands) with Electrify America being the most common for the type of plug that the Lyriq has. For charging at shopping centers, hotels, and other destinations, the Lyriq can use any plug that is available, even the Tesla plug with an adapter (but not the Tesla Supercharger DC fast chargers). It's very common these days that hotels will have plugs available for patrons to use. When I travel, I make that a requirement. Charging costs vary but generally, the DC fast chargers will be the pay per use type while the slower ones that are at destinations, shopping, and hotels are free. Overall, the charging standard that the Lyriq uses is fairly robust but still a little rough around the edges.

Offline Andrew Trout

  • Posts: 232
  • CLC Number: 26976
  • Name: Andrew Trout
Re: Cadillac Lyriq, road trips and range concerns
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2021, 03:06:41 PM »
This general topic (viability of EV) has come up several times on the forum, which is great in that there's just more curiosity and awareness. Range anxiety is certainly a concern for me as well when it comes to purchasing a EV or PHEV (plug-in hybrid EV). One plan I've had is for my wife and I to have one EV/PHEV in the household as the car for running around town and short trips, and one car with an ICE as the long-haul/events in more rural areas/backup for the EV car. My wife has been working from home for the past year with no return date in site, so if we had a EV/PHEV our gas costs would be miniscule right now. Her car is paid off though, so we're good with our current setup.

Recharging in general is going to take some adapting by all of us. We all (probably) have it in our heads that we drive an EV the same was as an ICE: Drive until the energy/fuel level gets to a certain point, look for a place to top off, do so, and then hit the road again. With an EV, recharging is not a linear progression like it is with refueling. For a hypothetical example, you're at 20% power in your EV. You find a charging station and plug in. Your EV may take 60+ minutes to reach 100%, but only 20 minutes to reach 80%. Depending on how far away your destination is and where the next charging station is, it may be a more efficient use of your time (you get there faster) to only charge to 80% and start driving again. Much like how fuel economy and HP are points of differentiation between cars now, range and charge time will most likely be big ones in the future.

I can't comment on charging station lines, only to say I see lines to fill up at gas stations as well. Theoretically a charging station could have more maximum capacity than a gas station, and it's starting to become commonplace to have a few chargers in parking garages and parking lots, as well as larger charging stations off highways. Business are always looking to find ways to attract customers, and landlords are looking for ways to maximize the revenue from every square inch of their property. Charging stations are a new retail concept that appeals to both of those groups, and are starting to roll out across the country.

The cost to recharge away from your home will most likely vary based on a myriad of small costs, similar to how the cost of gasoline can vary depending on what state, county, or town you're in, along with what company you're purchasing from. I wouldn't be surprised to see complementary charging at hotels, reduced cost charging at bars, restaurants, or venues for customers, and membership-only wholesale clubs like BJ's or Costco offering (reduced) charging for members as well.


Rochester, NY
1961 Convertible

Offline MaR

  • Posts: 983
  • Name: Mitchell Radford
Re: Cadillac Lyriq, road trips and range concerns
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2021, 03:27:06 PM »
This general topic (viability of EV) has come up several times on the forum, which is great in that there's just more curiosity and awareness. Range anxiety is certainly a concern for me as well when it comes to purchasing a EV or PHEV (plug-in hybrid EV). One plan I've had is for my wife and I to have one EV/PHEV in the household as the car for running around town and short trips, and one car with an ICE as the long-haul/events in more rural areas/backup for the EV car. My wife has been working from home for the past year with no return date in site, so if we had a EV/PHEV our gas costs would be miniscule right now. Her car is paid off though, so we're good with our current setup.

Recharging in general is going to take some adapting by all of us. We all (probably) have it in our heads that we drive an EV the same was as an ICE: Drive until the energy/fuel level gets to a certain point, look for a place to top off, do so, and then hit the road again. With an EV, recharging is not a linear progression like it is with refueling. For a hypothetical example, you're at 20% power in your EV. You find a charging station and plug in. Your EV may take 60+ minutes to reach 100%, but only 20 minutes to reach 80%. Depending on how far away your destination is and where the next charging station is, it may be a more efficient use of your time (you get there faster) to only charge to 80% and start driving again. Much like how fuel economy and HP are points of differentiation between cars now, range and charge time will most likely be big ones in the future.

I can't comment on charging station lines, only to say I see lines to fill up at gas stations as well. Theoretically a charging station could have more maximum capacity than a gas station, and it's starting to become commonplace to have a few chargers in parking garages and parking lots, as well as larger charging stations off highways. Business are always looking to find ways to attract customers, and landlords are looking for ways to maximize the revenue from every square inch of their property. Charging stations are a new retail concept that appeals to both of those groups, and are starting to roll out across the country.

The cost to recharge away from your home will most likely vary based on a myriad of small costs, similar to how the cost of gasoline can vary depending on what state, county, or town you're in, along with what company you're purchasing from. I wouldn't be surprised to see complementary charging at hotels, reduced cost charging at bars, restaurants, or venues for customers, and membership-only wholesale clubs like BJ's or Costco offering (reduced) charging for members as well.
For us at out house with electricity at ~11 cents per kw/h, 1000 miles costs about $30. You are correct in saying that it can very greatly when out on the road. In some states, it's not legal for a company to resell electricity so you are charged by the minute, usually at a tiered rate depending on power consumption, in other states you are charged by the kw/h. Some charging networks offer subscription services for discounted rates if you frequently need to use DC fast charging. Station lines generally relegated to some specific, high traffic locations in and around major routes in California. I have traveled all up and down the east coast and I can only recall one time when there was a full location and that was several years ago before DC fast charging stations were a prevalent. It does take a bit of a shift in your mindset. Generally, you charge overnight and leave in the morning with a "full tank". Range is long enough now that unless you are on a road trip, charging when you are out and about is just not something you do. On a 575 mile trip that my wife and I have taken many, many times in many different vehicles, the charging now has a net time cost of zero since we now charge at the location that we normally stop at to eat.

Re: Cadillac Lyriq, road trips and range concerns
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2021, 03:44:46 PM »
Mar:

Regarding this quote you posted:
 “With respect to the fire fight, unfortunately, those rumors grew way out of control. It did not take us four hours to put out the blaze. Our guys got there and put down the fire within two to three minutes, enough to see the vehicle had occupants. After that, it was simply cooling the car as the batteries continued to have a chain reaction due to damage."

Can you please supply a link to the original article?  I'm
curious to see the whole picture.  Thanks.

Mike
1955 Cadillac Eldorado
1973 Cadillac Eldorado
1995 Cadillac Seville
2004 Escalade
1997 GMC Suburban 4X4, 454 engine, 3/4 ton
custom built by Santa Fe in Evansville, IN
2011 Buick Lucerne CX
-------------------------------------
CLCMRC Museum Benefactor #38
Past: VP International Affiliates, Museum Board Director, President / Director Pittsburgh Region

Offline MaR

  • Posts: 983
  • Name: Mitchell Radford
Re: Cadillac Lyriq, road trips and range concerns
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2021, 03:48:22 PM »
Mar:

Regarding this quote you posted:
 “With respect to the fire fight, unfortunately, those rumors grew way out of control. It did not take us four hours to put out the blaze. Our guys got there and put down the fire within two to three minutes, enough to see the vehicle had occupants. After that, it was simply cooling the car as the batteries continued to have a chain reaction due to damage."

Can you please supply a link to the original article?  I'm
curious to see the whole picture.  Thanks.

Mike

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a36189237/tesla-model-s-fire-texas-crash-details-fire-chief/

Offline dinhnguyen57

  • Posts: 324
  • CLC Number: 31841
  • Name: DNguyen
Re: Cadillac Lyriq, road trips and range concerns
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2021, 07:46:28 PM »
I wonder how electric cars fair in winter or colder climates?  Batteries are less efficient.  Are these cars still dependable?  I heard the range can drop by 50% in cold weather.

-Dinh
1941 Series 62 coupe
1959 Eldorado Seville
1970 Deville convertible
2007 Mercedes S550
2009 STS
2018 Chrysler Pacifica

Offline TJ Hopland

  • Posts: 10183
Re: Cadillac Lyriq, road trips and range concerns
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2021, 08:15:28 PM »
Here is a guy that has a lot of good car related videos including a recent one where he repeated a road trip he did in the summer in the winter in his Tesla.   He has a lot of EV related videos where he actually puts numbers to things.  Engineering Explained is the channel name if you don't like links.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UskzfQJt2Bc
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

 

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